The Hallelujah Chorus

barack-obama-2

No matter our pasts, no matter our differences, we lived to see this day.

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Published in: on November 5, 2008 at 12:29 am  Comments (479)  

479 Comments

  1. Amen.

  2. And Amen.

  3. Mary, Mother of God we DID IT!

  4. and with 95% of the votes counted in NC? Obama is now 25,000 votes ahead.

    my, MY.

    i’ve been hitting the Refresh button on the NC results for the past hour.
    i know how much it means to you, hand pie! AND SO IT IS HIS. FIN.

    NOW IS THE TIME TO CELEBRATE. NC AND INDIANA BOTH WENT BLUE. THAT IS RED-HOT. YAY!

  5. Ohio went Blue, too! Even the predominantly Republican Hamilton County (Cincinnati) went to Obama.

  6. Reporting from the former Confederacy: THE WAR IS OVER.

  7. Finally!!!!

  8. Much love to all y’all who had a hand in making this a historic night. We WILL be better off!

  9. I just feel so…sober. Reverent. Still.

  10. What an amazing moment in history! I am so sad though that his grandmother died before seeing him get elected. And, my god, we may see an end to the war soon. Yeah ha, yeah ha! I’m just so excited here tonight in Michigan!!!!!!!

    My own state voted in Medical Marijuana, and we may have passed tax-funded stem cell research. I’m on cloud nine! (My good friend is paralyzed from the chest down – Transverse Myelitis, and we hope that this will help her walk someday!)

  11. My sister, Wayne, my beloved niece and Kalia, all went and stood in line for 25 minutes in Stoney Creek Township in Blountsville, Indiana, a crossroads with a feed and grain elevator, decaying railroad tracks, and miles of farmland surrounding it. And in that place, they cast their vote for a black man.

    I’ve been knocked to my knees.

  12. Brandon, I agree: thank you all. Thank you for being citizens not just of this country, but of the world.

  13. Jim Shue, all my fellow Hoosiers, did you EVER?!?

  14. Wait…did he take Indiana?

  15. Oh heavens…it has already started…the sour grapes.

  16. Yes we can!!! What a great acceptance speech!

  17. speechless. happy.

  18. He said “black and white, gay and straight, disabled and not disabled,” in his acceptance speech. I couldn’t believe it, he said ‘gay’ just like that.

  19. Dude.

  20. No, Haven, I NEVER, EVER did. And you caught the same line I/We did.

  21. ‘the moment of change is the only poem’

    adrienne rich

  22. Not in a million years did I ever expect this state to go blue. Let alone for a man of color.

  23. And the good news is that we’re not going to have to become Canadian.

  24. I can’t sleep; that was such an amazing speech. I had to check the Ohio results one more time just to make sure it was still blue. Yay Ohio!

  25. I would like to give a shout-out to my daughter, the most exquisite Kat, who was THE first person I ever heard say Obama was going to be the first African-American President. She said it in 2000, and has believed it ever since. Eight years of faith. You’re a smart one, my girl.

    p.s. I know you also said you were going to marry him, but I think that worked out for the best.

  26. Woot Woot!

  27. During Obama’s acceptance speech, when he mentioned Ann Nixon Cooper? Oh my. His whole speech was incredible, but that .. I think that was my favorite.

  28. Was that the 106 year old woman? That was amazing.

    Also, how cute is Joe Biden’s momma?

  29. Yep, Kate.
    I know. :)
    Is anyone else too excited to sleep? I’m just .. all floaty and warm and inside. :)

  30. *and warm inside

  31. I need to go to bed. I’ve been sick for a week. But yeah…it’s not going to be easy. And already the sour grapes have started online and that is getting under my skin.

  32. Tears of relief to a lesser degree — and tears of unutterable happiness — are such rare occurences in life, we are, I think, a bit taken aback at them. I was in such a fine mood this morning and afternoon (went to Doc’s for lunch with Kelly, bought Richard Powers’s The Echo Maker, etc), but this evening was the mother of all fine moods…the honey on the tongue, the cupid arrow, the passing through the comet’s tail with wonder instead of wounds. To be alive to see what we saw tonight — it doesn’t get much better — it can’t. Thank you for that photo of our new president, Haven. Dearie me…

  33. “with wonder instead of wounds”
    Nicely put, Jason. :D

    “Thank you for that photo of our new president, Haven”
    AAHH!! Sarah Palin is going to stay in Alaska, keeping an eye on those Russians, McCain and his scary wife aren’t getting into the White House. That amazing man and his beautiful wife and daughters are moving in in two months and things are going to get better. :: dances a happy dance ::

  34. Jason, I thought of our e-mail exchanges this morning, and how long ago that seems now. I’m glad the intuition we both had was true.

  35. Still not in bed.

  36. oh, Haven, my thoughts exactly…HALLELUJAH!!!

    shut UP. Indiana just went BLUE. i REALLY never thought i’d see this day.

    must go to bed. too excited to go to bed.

  37. Eloquence is returning to the White House. I can take pride in what my president says and how he says it. After eight long years of cringing, a new president who can represent us in a gracious, graceful manner.

  38. Amen, Sister. I just listened to Obama’s acceptance speech and looked at the photos of so many people with tears in their eyes. This is a great day.

  39. In Lynchburg, Va, coloring in my little circle for Obama, I felt as though I was helping him make history. Last night, listening to our new president mention me, as a lesbian, in his acceptance speech, I felt as though he was including me in that history making moment. I had tears running down my face for him, for me, for us all.

  40. Haven, I said the exact same thing as Kat, in 2000, after listening to his speech at the DNC.

  41. YAY!! Such high expectations…
    We are, of course, dissappointed in Arizona…the marriage ban passed and they voted McCain. sigh. I have two years to go to retirement and we are looking to move back to our home state of Iowa to a small couple acres where we can grow our own food and live with sensible people again. The midwest feels like home to us, so home we will go.
    I am just thankful the election is clearcut enough that there won’t be any legal challenges.

  42. so i crashed and fell asleep at the end of obama’s speech. he is an incredible orator. so natural, so right. i will remember forever the day a black man was voted OUR president. yes we can, we can change. we don’t have to live like the assholes W has made us look like to the rest of the world. i am proud to be american.

  43. I’m still in awe of this country for rising above ignorance, and of so many Red states turning Blue.

    Kate – I’ve seen some sour grape comments online already, too. All the die-hard Bushies will never admit the past 8 years have been a nightmare for this country.

    HK – RE: “I couldn’t believe it, he said ‘gay’ just like that.” I’m so proud to finally have a president who actually acknowledges my existence in a postive way.

    Suzanne – What happened with Prop 8 in California?

  44. Me too, devon, Me too. :)

  45. Or, was that DNC speech in 2004? arggh I can’t remember.

  46. I believe the sun is shining brighter today. There is a calm in the air that I have not felt in years. It is going to be a good day.

  47. Watching it al unfold last night was incredible. Even McCain’s concession speech was good. Like someone said last night, if he’d presented himself that way throughout the election, he might have won. What an exciting time in history, and we’ve all been part of it. This should bring our country a much-needed surge of optimism.

  48. And Amen yet again.

  49. p.s. I wonder why my avatar is now suddenly showing the picture I tried getting up there a few months ago? Did you change something in your settings, Haven? I’m seeing lots less quilts and many more personalized avatars. Looks great.

  50. This is the twelfth Presidential election in which I have cast my vote. I feel like it is my first win! I will continue to hope that Barack can unite us.

  51. Polly- it depends on whether or not you are signed into WordPress on the computer you are on. At work my computer automatically signs me in so you see my daughter with the pumpkins because that is my newest photo. But at home I usually don’t bother to sign it so it goes back to the original photo I first posted which is the silly up close shot of my face because I did not know how to shrink down the image yet.

  52. Brandon, I have been refreshing the California results all night with the hope that Prop 8 would be defeated, but it looks like it passed with a wide margin. I feel so broken for those who will have their lives torn asunder by this fear-filled amendment, but I also believe that it WILL NOT stay that way. And I CAN believe that because of what happened tonight. Perhaps we can only defeat one kind of bigotry at a time in this country. Perhaps not. But slowly, slowly people will realize that gay is no different from black. I expect the next most momentous decision of my lifetime will be a United States Constitutional amendment recognizing that fact.

  53. It was truly the most amazing night I have witnessed in awhile. I sat on my couch with my mom, and my beautiful bi-racial daughter, watching this man and the most historical event of our lifetimes and for the first time felt like anything was possible for her. I’m proud I got to be a part of this decision and I feel like America really is moving forward.

  54. I dropped my blue vote into a great vat of Georgia red, but I am so elated that together as a country we were able to do this. I’m trying to dry my tears (after watching his amazing acceptance speech) as I type.

    Thank you all for helping the rest of us get there. :-)

  55. Hoooooray for everyone! And hooray for this lovely (sometimes) state of Virgina, which really could have gone either way.

    In the understatement of the century, this is gonna be neat! :)

  56. Ditto Ditto and Ditto! This has returned my faith in the USA and I pray for President Obama and his family as they embark on this difficult journey. Cute aobut getting his daughters a dog too ; )…..

  57. Best Niece Abby: I couldn’t agree more. Riley is too young to know what happened last night, but she’ll reap the benefits in the years to come. I’m still shocked beyond what I thought was possible that Indiana went in the direction of Obama. It gives me the greatest joy in thinking we made the right decision to move back here.

  58. Amanda, did you ever hear of Baron Von Stuben?

    Washington hired him to train the continental armies.

    He was German, a mercenary, a real hardass. He had an interpreter with him at all times – it wasn’t enough that he’d scream furious cuss words in the boots’ faces. He wanted what he screamed translated, so the
    slacker or the fuck-up could trully appreciate his wrath.

    Von Stuben wrote the blue-book – the procedure of drilling for U.S. soldiers which has remained in use throughout our history, to this day. When something works, you stay with it. When you see marines do the “PRESNT ARMS!” and so forth? He came up with that. And he worked out every detail of the procedure, so that
    it was timed and precisioned and there was no wasted motion whatsoever. And everybody did it at the exact same time, and did it right, till it was automatic, or there was hell to pay.

    Also he more or less reinvented how camps are set up.
    Clean and orderly, or hell to pay. And always, always,
    the latrines downhill and downwind. Or else.

    The U.S. Armed forces, and the country, owe a lot to Von Steuben. Steubenville, Ohio was named after him.

    Why am I telling you this? Well, The Baron was, well, gay as a lark. There it tis.

  59. Fellow Americans,
    Well, the frat party is over. What a mess. I hope someone puts their thinking cap on before they elect a president that they’d “want to have a beer with.”

    Well, America had that beer, and right away felt woozy, and woke up with a sore asshole and a pocket fulla I.O.U.s. Sad.

    I am so proud of our new president. For a hundred reasons. Nothing like this has happened before. Damn.
    Everybody grab a mop. We can talk while we work.

    Long Live The Republic!

  60. Haven—months ago we met at Quail Ridge Books in Raleigh (for your “Iodine” reading). My mom, my sister and I spoke with you about Obama!

    This is an incredible day – I can’t describe the feeling. I had 40+ people over to watch the results last night. I strung up blue lights all along my fence.

    (My book club is reading “Iodine” and I’m facilitating at the end of the month!)

  61. Hmm.
    I like you Matt.

  62. whisper to Amy in Ohio: I love your comments. They always make me happy.

  63. Oh Amanda that just made my day! I would whisper back but I am a loud talker:~)

  64. I’m so happy today! I was talking to my brother last night and told him the first thing I wanted to see was 270 by his name, but if we could take Indiana…..

    Well that would be the giant cherry on top! And after that amazing, moving speech that left me with tears in my eyes my mother called from Ohio and told me that she now feels like the rest of the world has reason to be proud of America again. That summed up pretty well for me.

    YES WE DID!

  65. HELLO YOU GROUP OF GORGEOUS, WITTY PEOPLE!!!!!

    Yes, we did, didn’t we?

    Yes, we can, can’t we?

    Yes, we will, won’t we?

  66. YES!!!

  67. The last time I felt this pure, unabated, simple, even childish joy about my country was we landed on the moon.

    This election showed the world that we can rise above our fears, that we can loosen our better instincts, that we can claim our measure of justice and freedom — not just for ourselves — but for one another.

    I can’t adequately express this infusion of profound gratitude and joy that is swirling around inside me at this moment.

  68. and again I say, Amen!

    My little drop of blue joined Amber’s in GA. It was with a joyful heart that I tapped out my vote on my goofy touch screen. And it was with near euphoria that I watched the results with my 12yo son while he chanted,”Oh, YESSSSS we can!” Then I sent him to school today in his Obama t-shirt, hoping to heaven my little open hearted blondey doesn’t come home with a bloody nose courtesy of some Cobb county mini republican.

  69. Coco, I love the way you wrote that comment!!! And your boy sound delightful!

  70. …been reading reports of the election in the foreign press…we haven’t seen this type of acceptance and expressions of encouragement from around the world since 911…

  71. this election was when our hope married history

  72. It makes me so happy too. Mostly for all of our children’s sake too. 8 years is a long time in the life of a child so it is nice to finally be able to wake up to a new day of optimism. We really needed this.

  73. Ditto to everything everyone has already so eloquently said. I am a happy blue hoosier girl today, and thrilled for our country – and I hopeful for the first time in a long, long time. Also thrilled that South Dakota voted agaist an abortion ban, California passed prop 2, and still hopeful about prop 8 – do we know anything yet? Just getting online for the first time today after an idyllic drive through Henry County Indiana. I’m in your old stomping ground today, HK! :-)

  74. Idyllic would be right, Steph. If there is any land more beautiful that Indiana on the first week of November, I don’t know where it would be.

  75. Never never never thought I would ever be this happy the morning after election day. Ten Presidential elections; 36 years. Damn I’m ready to lose it all over again…

  76. Breaking the Obama Spirit for a moment.

    News Alert:

    Michael Crichton, the author of the blockbuster
    science-fiction novels “Jurassic Park,” “The Andromeda
    Strain” and “State of Fear,” has died at 66.

    Read More:

    http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

  77. dang, where’s my new avatar?

  78. Thanks for the link, Dee. I’m off to read now.

  79. Jerri: thanks for your post over in Daylight Time. I was lost in election coverage last night and did not get to tell you what a great writer and fine person you are. But I’m a-tellin’ you now.

  80. Thank you, George. Kind words could not come at a better time or from a better source. Today’s kind of a down day on the roller coaster of adoption reunion. I’m breathing deep and hanging on. You just helped more than you can know.

  81. Particlesof spirit-I know! Isnt that terrible?

  82. I just spent 3 weeks in an incredibly “red” and segregated area of Florida (I saw one African-American person the whole time I was there, and there was an elaborately hand-drawn sign on the fishing pier proclaiming “No Gays on Dock”), and I returned eagerly to my “blue” California, where I’ve lived off and on my whole life (and all over the state) and always been proud to live in communities that embrace diversity. I’m thrilled, of course, with the Presidential result, in fact, I’m not sure I would have been able to bear the alternative. But Yes on Prop 8? Really, California? REALLY? What the fuck is everyone so afraid of? I just don’t understand people sometimes. Sigh.

  83. I’ve never felt this way before. Not until I was watching the “man on the street” interviews did I realize it was pride. I heard that over and over, I’m proud to be an American. And it wasn’t until I heard it over and over from friends — men and women of color — that I realized just how much the historical nature of his candidacy had slipped my mind during this campaign. They are so over the moon for what it means for their children. I was proud yesterday we, a majority of us, anyway, refused to be manipulated by the politics of fear and chose a grownup (there was even something in his acceptance speech about this), chose a good man (who’d have thought there were ANY in politics?). I wake up today and am so proud we’ve come so far as a country from our apartheid roots. If we really do get the leaders we deserve, I am so proud.

    Thrilled too, about Indiana and NC. I can’t get that song out of my head since the acceptance speech, “It’s a new dawn, it’s a new day, it’s a new life, … and I’m feeling good.”

  84. Shanna, AMEN!

  85. WTF, “No Gays on Dock”? Why would anyone even think of posting such a sign? Does Fred Phelps live there?

  86. I’m so disappointed in the final prop 8 count — I never thought it would pass. On the other hand, 61% in 2000 voted for something close to this; this time it was 52%. At this rate, by the time they get another prop on the ballot to extend the right to marry to everyone, it should pass. For myself, I’m with Amanda. No matter the device, I’d like to see the right guaranteed across the board, instead of state by state.

  87. George — where are you reading? Which foreign press sites?

  88. George — where are you reading? Which foreign press sites?

  89. BBC, Al-Jeezera, then just following links in the same manner Alice chased the rabbit. I don’t think my totem animal is the rabbit; it is the red bird. Of that, I have no doubt.

  90. I’m subscribed to an English speaking French news site called France 24, they were sending me news updates much faster than the NYTimes last night. I think the French are as happy as we are.

  91. Why the red bird, George?

  92. Has anyone else checked the Palin as president site today? :)

    http://www.palinaspresident.us/

  93. LOVE the updated palinaspresident site!

  94. I have never commented on here although I read Haven’s blog all the time. Today, however, I couldn’t help myself…thank you all for your excitement and wonderful words–I can’t believe it actually happened!!!! Truly a wonderful day (minus the sadness I am feeling for my great state of CA passing the gay marraige ban; disappointment does not even express my feelings about that. My boyfriend and I were both in tears this morning over the ignorance of people). Anyway–thanks again for all your inspiration!

  95. Dee–didn’t the updated palinaspresident site just make you want to stand up and cheer! Pairing that recording with a photo of the Oval Office was Genius on someone’s part.

  96. POS, that soundtrack underlying was so moving — I can’t get over how perfectly bits of Obama’s Yes, We Can speech was interwoven with melody. Went once through, and clicked to listen again. Would love to own that track. Any idea who the singers are?

  97. “Occasionally in life there are those moments of unutterable fulfillment which cannot be completely explained by those symbols called words. Their meanings can only be articulated by the inaudible language of the heart.”

    - Martin Luther King Jr.,
    Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech, Dec. 11, 1964

    This was in my daily email from Sojourners. I thought it was appropriate to share.

  98. Jerri: It just is, cannot explain it. I know them and can make a whistle that attracts them. Go figure.

  99. Carrie, the singers/speakers used to be listed in detail on the youtube version:

    but they aren’t there anymore. i will keep looking, but here is an excellent article about the “making of” that video.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/02/16/bmobama116.xml

  100. Carrie–the soundtrack is from a youtube that’s been up for months. Here’s a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

  101. Welcome, Cassie! OOh, Cassie of SRLS. I love her.

  102. testing an idea… not sure if this will work:

  103. Thanks Jerri, Amanda … so it looks like John Legend and will.i.am — but the women? I must have been living under a rock.

  104. The passing of Prop 8 has broken my heart today, along with similar bans in Florida and Arizona. Despite this, I still feel that we can learn from our own history, and it is only a matter of time before this too is behind us. Behind us, not something forgotten, but something we look at as yet another change we were able to make together, by showing our perseverance and compassion.

    Just like Cassie, I don’t really comment here as I’m usually out of my league :-), but we’re all in this together, so I wanted to say a few things before I fade into the background again.

    It has been very lovely to read everyone’s positive comments today.

  105. here is a bit more:

    Part of the fun is trying to identify the participants, including John Legend, Scarlett Johansson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Herbie Hancock, Common, Kate Walsh and Tatyana Ali.

    i am still looking for a complete list

  106. Don’t fade away, Amber. Believe me, everyone is equal here and everyone’s voice can be heard. Yes WE can!!

  107. AHA!!!

    HE “YES WE CAN SONG” WAS RECORDED AT ETHER AND RECORD PLANT IN LA ON
    JANUARY 30 & 31, 2008.

    Talent:
    Adam Rodriguez
    Alfonso Ribeiro
    Amaury Nolasco
    Amber Valletta
    Auden Mccaw
    Anson Mount
    Austin Nichols
    Aisha Tyler
    Bryan Greenberg
    Cliff Collins
    Common
    Derek Watkins
    Ed Kowalczyk
    Enrique Murciano
    Eric Balfour
    Eric Olsen
    Esthero
    Fred Goldring
    Harold Perrineau
    Herbie Hancock
    Hill Harper
    John Legend
    John Schaech
    Kareem Abdul Jabbar
    Kate Walsh
    Kelly Hu
    Maya Rubin
    Nick Cannon
    Nicole Scherzinger
    Sam Page
    Sarah Wright
    Scarlett Johansson
    Shoshannah Stern
    Taryn Manning
    Tatyana Ali
    Tracee Ellis Ross
    will.i.am

  108. Oh, I’m so emotionally conflicted today. I’m elated that Obama is our next President and I know this will mean GREAT things for our country. I’m completely saddened by state issues though. Proposition 8 passed, and Arkansas passed a ban on adoptions by unmarried couples. The approval of the Arkansas ban isn’t a shock, but California? Come on!

    This commercial just kills me…this is truly what it feels like:

  109. i’m so, so, so sorry Brandon.

  110. Wow, Brandon, that is incredible. As someone who is engaged to be married I am truly devastated that there are HUMAN BEINGS who cannot marry.
    Sad, sad, sad

  111. It makes me wonder if marriage is not just some old time religious rite and a buracracy. All government controlled

  112. To me, this state-by-state ban of consenting adults to marry is a clear violation of the 14 Amendment.

  113. I was shocked by the result in California, but it’s getting better in other places. Maine, for instance. The saying goes, “so goes Maine/Vermont, so goes the nation”, and I hope by next year, gay marriage will be legal here. And since it’s legal in Vermont .. it’s only a matter of time. :)

  114. Have the challenges to this discrimination been built around the 14th? The prohibition is so clearly unconstitutional.

  115. I think there is a constitutional basis for challenging this discrimination. I don’t think there is a political apparatus in place to start building the constituency it needs for a federal fight instead of these locale-by-locale skirmishes.

  116. Here’s to change! He’s to a better future! Here’s to hope! Here’s to making history and here’s to our new president!!!

    But in other news, I’m so sorry to hear about Prop 8. Here’s to a better chance for a better tomorrow for better rights. I’ll drink to that, too.

  117. I really love how I slept all day and you guys just took the ball and ran with it.

    They grow up so fast!

  118. We ran, but we missed you, too.

  119. I second Jerri’s comments. :)

  120. Just wanna spread this around, if no one knows about it.

    http://www.palinaspresident.us/ This WAS a joke site, about if Palin was president (it was quite funny) Now it’s changed, and awesome. So, give it a listen, maybe?

  121. It’s very tempting to say about Prop 8 and others that the progress is stuttering but gets made, given that I’m not gay and haven’t been waiting my whole life for it. I find it stunningly shameful that our government would limit contractual rights between consenting adults because they’re gay but would allow me to marry and divorce hither skither, as many times as I want to. And I have! And one of them was to a gay man! So take that, CONSTITUTION!

  122. Hello fellow election night bloggers – so glad we have such a beautiful fulfillment of hope to celebrate.

    Change takes time . . . although not all of our votes were heard (I am a blue drop in the red of TN) and I know many other local rights did not go our way) the fact that everyone felt the need to vote and that we each stood to be counted – I am so proud of all of us, each and everyone.

    I feel more today than in 2000 that we are truly entering a new millenium or spirit of the times . . . sometimes the road is longer but provides the best view, just keep your eyes on the prize. Freedoms won too easily can be taken for granted.

    We are virtually reliving a revival of not just patriotism, but personal responsibility for our futures. Trust in that little particle of love that is in each of us.

    I am just ignoring the naysayers. Imagine how crazy people must have thought George Washington, John Adams, & Thomas Jefferson were – I bet they would be on this blog!!!!

    Love to all – from my painkiller-clouded, couch-bound self!

    My happy pants dances have all ment mental!

  123. George, Scott doesn’t understand what we’re supposed to do now that Obama’s been elected. He can’t remember what he used to do before he spent 1/3 of his waking hours playing Palin As President and checking fivethirtyeight.com. He’s a bit adrift.

  124. you know what is so funny – it is the interpretation (human) that screws up all those sacred texts . . .

  125. I’m showing my peabrain here – what I don’t get is how the government can pretend there’s a shred of legal basis for denying marriage to gay people. There’s supposed to be a separation from church and state, so .. the whole bit of religion “marriage is one man, one woman” shouldn’t even be figuring into the equation…?

  126. Yes, it makes NO sense. NO sense at all. I am still so confused of how it even got on there in the first place…no sense at all.

  127. I just found out it “Non-traditional Student Appreciation Week,” so appreciate me, dammit. :o)

  128. I appreciate you! ;)
    I was non-traditional once, too. For eleven long years, lol.

  129. Separation of Church and STATE . . . don’t get me started!

    For a majority of issues in our modern day lives, relativism would be the most fair and just form of consideration. However, when applying the concepts of relativism to our supposed practice of “Separation of Church and State” we see that it has not been fairly rendered. How can we say we enforce a separation of Church and State when our currencies, court proceedings and even our Pledge of Allegiance refers to “In God We Trust”, and so on.

    This situation calls for absolute policy of Separation of Church and State. Our country was birthed with the concept that all men/[women] should have the right to worship their god[s], how and when they wanted. Through the years this message of equality has only been accepted if the individuals recognize the Judeo-Christian of “god.”

    In all fairness to the Jewish traditions, we must say that even that acceptance has limited their rights. Do they not have to swear “So Help Me God” on the King James Version of the Holy Bible when they testify in court? Thereby, swearing their honesty and forthrightness on (in their mind) a blasphemous book which declares Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

    In a country which prides itself on being the “melting pot” or “tossed salad” of international culture, how has this shortsightedness been perpetuated for so many years? We hear concerns from the politicians regarding race relations, yet no one has been able to answer the concerns of prayer in public schools and other religious related issues. Courts have upheld a student’s right to worship in their chosen manner; however, we continue to have prayers to the Christian God spoken at graduations and other public gatherings.

    What right do teachers have to force their religious and political beliefs upon their students in the public education sector? These issues have been volatile, even in our local area, but the issues remain long after the court battles cease.

    An absolute policy of Separation would take care of all of these issues. Moments of silence in which all individuals might pray to their god or gods, or individuals might choose to meditate, and atheists can talk to themselves! Dogma should be left in an individual’s mind, in their church or private home or vehicle when they appear in a public, state-sponsored event.

    An additional concern is the mixed messages our children receive upon learning of the “Separation of Church and State” in social studies and then they stand to recite the Pledge of Allegiance (which did NOT originally have the wording “under God”)! What message are we sending our children by these contradictory practices? Are we breeding judgmental, close-minded individuals or persons who will dare to “walk a mile in another’s moccasins”?

    At issue in recent years has been the unfortunate fact that certain religions might cause physical harm to those within the religion (i.e., Christian Scientists, Satanic Followers). This concern is valid and should be treated in the same way as other child welfare issues are dealt with: if it is reported that a child is suffering physically or mentally, the state would investigate and upon proof, remove the child from the home. The standards of endangerment and human life and welfare should apply, absolutely, in ALL situations.

    Human beings do not have the right by virtue of their religious dogma to perpetuate pain and suffering on other human beings. We must strive to breed tolerant, caring individuals. One manner in which to accomplish this would be to enforce “Absolute Separation of Church and State”; thereby, giving respect to any individual’s choice of worship.

  130. obviously that was focusing on religion, but I believe it should protect our rights of consentual life styles, freedom to pursue happiness . . . etc.

  131. HAHAHA “George, Scott doesn’t understand what we’re supposed to do now that Obama’s been elected. He can’t remember what he used to do before he spent 1/3 of his waking hours playing Palin As President and checking fivethirtyeight.com. He’s a bit adrift.”

    I know, right! I’m going to have to dismantle my news blog now. I’ve been adding 2 or 3 new Obama news items a day. Now what?

  132. Sher? THANK YOU.
    And as far as making students recite the Pledge of Allegiance? I sat in my seat. I figured I’d say it when it when it got revised and the country started attempting to live up to its original ideals.

  133. Yes – and I believe the entirety of it is historically wrong as well, because although I enjoy federal protection, I also am saddened that states have lost so much of their individual cultures – originally we were supposed to be divisible. That was for the protection of freedoms. Because some of the founders were puritans it is assumed that all of the colonists were so – but, not true, many states were founded as they fled from the discrimination . . . so much for freedom of religion, which I like to say should be

    freedom of worldview.

  134. PARTICLES, WE APPRECIATE THEE.

    Could someone give me the rundown on what Obama plans to do about Amy Winehouse? I missed that part of his platform.

  135. Jerri, I haven’t forgotten about your daughter. I would be terrified, too. But my guess is the bond with you will protect her, not to mention remain unbroken.

  136. Hmm .. I’m still undecided about state’s being more independent .. I just feel there are some things, like our rights, which should be uniform across the board, and if the states were left to themselves, I think they’d be a long time coming .. more so than they already are.

  137. also, don’t forget that many individuals (I am going to forego labels here) do NOT believe that other individuals have the right to think differently. They take it as an affront to their particular life choices and their own conformity that us (we are real mavericks) choose to believe anthing different (religion,politics,worldview . . .). I feel that a lot of the furor is because of a deepseated fear that their fishbowl is cracking. It is terrifying for some people to change and it takes time.

    I believe patience and kindness, along with firm decisiveness is the only way to break down the walls. Screaming hate and intolerance actually works in the opposite effect. It is like spanking a child for hitting – ineffective and hypocritical.

    Um, my opinion . . .

  138. Kittery – yes!

    Many federal protections are their for constitutional enforcement . . . but sometimes it is the States granting freedoms that lead the way for federal enforcement . . . for example, the peer pressure of states such as Maine allowing same sex marriage, then opens the door for VOLUNTARY inclusion . . . thus, assimilation will spread and occur organically. Most people are less rebellious if they get to choose than if it is hammered on them from Big Brother . . .

    Such as States where aborition was legal . . .that spread and is now an open freedom . . . just as things can be spread cantagiously? So can progress and tolerance.

  139. I believe Obama is considering Amy Winehouse for his totem.

  140. So true.
    Last night, I shared that I was quite tickled that I got my other to sign the gay marriage initiative, and I was (almost) proud of her (we have a very .. interesting relationship). Then when we got in the car, she shared this little snippet with me, “I think gay people should have their legal rights, but I think they should keep their feelings to themselves” i.e, holding hands in public. That’s like saying, ‘I think black people are human, but they should stick to the fields’. When you pretend to be open-minded .. but, not really? I think that kind of fits in with your fishbowl theory…

  141. You raise an interesting point, Sher. :)
    Sadly, I have to leave in a minute. :( I’ll be back in a few hours!

  142. Jodi, I love you.

  143. My other post – *my mother, not my other. :: sigh ::

  144. has anyone studied the importance of Kansas in the balance of the Civil War – they literally died to remain slave free. I feel their example is what helped fortify the Union abolitionists – so many were willing to give up due to economic hardships . . .

    it is like watching a car catch on fire and all the bystanders are too afraid to move or help. But if just one single person steps forward, then more will follow. ONly a few have that “save someone” gene – the real leaders. I am a leader and I can’t believe the crazy things I get people to do . . . it is a huge responsibility to lead.

  145. Kittery — wait, your other as in significant other, or your other as in missing an ‘m’?

  146. oh, sorry! overlapping posts!

  147. so who dreamt of totems last night???

    I love to watch BROTHER BEAR . . . it is all about totems and guardians . . .

  148. Thank you, Haven.

    This is one of the times I wish I believed in God-as-Gepetto, One who would pull the right strings if I asked sweetly and often enough. I do not. (Maybe that’s why Solace is so important to me.)

    I do believe in looking inward for guidance, for inspiration. Looking outward, too. Your books, this blog, friends who live their love—all remind me to act my faith.

    My daughter and I do indeed have a very strong bond. I have to believe it will be enough. Again, thank you.

  149. As we discussed about my psycho fanatic teen years of puking up what was told to me . . .

    then I flipped to screaming for opposite from the reverse side – I was obnoxious.

    I truly believe that calmness and gentle debate is more effective than screaming and cussing (not that I am not pushed to that mind you – once I do I am dug in and you will have to canon me from the spot) . . . but, for example when my mom might say something that is (to me) not even veiled racism (“colored welfare mothers”) or (“go back where they came from”) I might say, “Hum, I actually believe that the human spirit has no color OR race OR gender and I would rather have my children meet a kind, open-minded person of any color or gender than for them to be with a judgmental whitebread hearted of opposite sex”). Or do you think Jesus considered the color of someone’s skin when he was dying on the cross?

    Note: I am an encridibly GOOD across and can actually pull off calmness and sweetness when I am LIVID AND FOAMING AT THE MENTAL MOUTH.

    I think sometimes you have gently probe for a crack in the fishbowl and slowly drain it rather than smashing it with a rock . . .

  150. um, I am a good ACTRESS, what is a good across?
    sorry!

  151. Um, Sher? How .. uh, how many of those pain-killers did you recently down? ‘Cause, honey, you aren’t making a bit of sense here.

  152. Sher – don’t worry about it – you are hilarious and right! I can’t see clearly tonight but you are coming through loud and clear! :-)

  153. My friend Chris:

    Indiana just blue itself.

  154. I don’t know what ‘good across’ is, but I think of you can spell ‘ox’ down you get a triple word score.

  155. I think Kittery’s other is a good across, too. :)

  156. not surprised, it’s subtle.

  157. I’ve only had 1/2 a painkiller all day . . . mostly I am practicing my lamaze breathing

  158. of course the republicans are disappointed, give them time to adjust. Imagine how we would all feel if Obama had not won last night. Don’t read the sour grapes, enjoy the glory instead.

  159. Good night, blog babies! I leave you all to your night owl-ness! :-)

  160. One thing that worries me, suddenly, is that Obama is not all that much older than I. And the idea of me running this country? I could hyperventilate. I can see this crazed little hamster wearing a helmet, frantically looking for the sesame treats she hid somewhere. Under the dingy bell? NO. In this squeezy . . . NO. What’s this? Is this a carrot? What was I doing?

  161. Haven, it’s always good to wear a helmet – one can never be too safe.

    I’m worried about Obama’s safety – I’m scared silly something crazy is going to happen to him. I want to hope for the best in others, but I fear some crazy racist will try to do something awful.

  162. Haven, that is so true about the contemporary age.

    He has so much dignity and I love his calmness and he is focused!!! So focused and calm. He will be a steady had on the wheel.

    As opposed to a drunk at the wheel, literally . . . and I think he might count to 10 before he would hit any war buttons . . .

  163. Jodi, I tried to e-mail you but I sent it to the original address I had.

  164. And now, I’m REALLY out. Night!

  165. Also, I was impressed that he seemed sober and solemn last night, even in the midst of the amazing victory – his eye is already past the golden ring he just won and he is ready to get to work.

  166. The analogy of Washington D.C. as a giant Habitrail is too much for me… :)

  167. Hoosier Steph -

    Owwwww, I had that scary thought, too.

    If someone was stupid enough to blow out the light of John Lennon . . . we just have to focus on his safety and protection.

  168. He is really, really focused. I didn’t realize he was so young (I knew it, I think, but forgot) because I’m so accustomed to hanging out with people like myself. As I said to Dee — this was prior to it being her Appreciation Day — I have to be reminded to wear pants.

  169. Agreed, Sher… I spent most of the night imagining Obama in a protective light.

  170. I’m with you, Sher. Every time my fears for his safety rise, I set them aside and focus on safety and protection. May not change a thing in the world, but neither will dwelling in the fear, either.

  171. I have that emotion constantly when I run into people who are thirty years old and I find out they own fancy cars and expensive houses and have investments and blah blah blah…I just bought my first HAIRDRYER.

    I’m wearing pants. Thank God. I’ve had people in and out of this house ALL DAY.

    Alice is not wearing pants.

  172. good for alice . . . I wear pants, but not underpants, because of panty lines

  173. I love to air dry. I was NEVER allowed to air dry as a child . . . now I do laundry, my makeup, everything, while I am air drying . . . . but I have to be ALONE in the house and that is Rare.

  174. Jerri -

    I was thinking of making a prayer flag for Obama . . . it seems like something solid I can do to send him safety

  175. Brilliant, Sher. The one you made for Haven is incredible.

  176. It was comforting to me to, to know that it was/is out there blowing in the wind . . . it is going to go to her for further blowing – it is holding up amazingly well, but I will miss it – now the OBAMA one can replace it.

    There was a time when most Americans probably prayed daily for the president. We are all practicing differently, but I would love to think that he has support and best wishes and that people hope for his wisdom each day.

  177. Haven, didn’t you air dry at least once as a child???? I used to let the babies just streak it all the time.

    Have you ever seen the documentary “What Remains?” It is about artist Sally Mann and how she was raised as a “naturalist” in the country and then she did the same thing for the most part – that is when she took all those photos of her naked kids in the lake, etc. Anyway, it is beautiful and also follows her development as an artists, her husband’s illness, the death of her dogs, and the event of an escaped prisoner who was shot down and killed on her land. That lead her to photograph remains of all kinds – even to the point of visiting the body farm in TN – those photos are gorgeous in their fragility of humanness.

    I think you would like it. They also show her crying when an exhibit is canceled do to its “uncommercialness” and then she ends up with a museum opening in the Corcorran in DC – another reason why I think all events are part of a larger pattern . . .

  178. Air drying is a fundamental part of my life. As for Alice, she’s just a streaker.

  179. Kate, I thought you wrote ‘air drying is a fundamentalist part of my life,’ and you were about to shock me were yet more news about the Nazarenes.

  180. I love the vision of baby butts

  181. Here’s one:

    True Nazarenes are NOT fundies!

  182. don and I got a pair of “fundies” for our wedding . .. .

  183. HA!

    I’m about to stick some fundies on Miss Alice’s naked patooty.

  184. I am not wearing fundies. Still in my jammies from last night. Not getting dressed is a disturbing trend. I’ll try to do better tomorrow.

  185. Kate, I was thinking about this earlier in regards to your comments about conservatives and the election. We really should define our terms.

    A fundamentalist believes in the letter of the law. A fundamentalist will not drink, will not get a tattoo, will usually listen only to Christian music, does not believe in women having a leadership role in the church, will often home school or send their children to Christian school. A fundamentalist believes in a literal 7-day creation, no ifs ands or buts. Usually a fundamentalist will only read the King James Version of the Bible. A fundamentalist will often not use any form of birth control, since all children are a blessing and to use contraceptives could result in an “abortion.” I think you all get the idea.

    An EVANGELICAL is a different breed of Christan. An evangelical believes in Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation, but practices this form of religion with more grace. They wear pants. They might drink wine. They have friends who are not Christians. They might accidentally use a swear word. A literal 7-day creation may or may not be part of their belief system. The husband is not the Supreme Authority of the household who must be obeyed. They watch tv and listen to secular music. In general, the evangelical is more in touch with the rest of the world.

    I mean no offense to anyone and I write these things as someone who spent the first 18 years of life in a fundamentalist household. College led me to evangelical. Now I am neither.

  186. Today I got up. I took a bath. I wore my robe for a long time. I took a shower. I changed into clean pajamas.

  187. Yes, Evangelical. Right-O!

  188. Oh, and I know this might sound stupid, but while I am a member of a Nazarene church I don’t consider myself to be a Nazarene. I consider myself to be a Christian who attends a Nazarene church, and my definition of Christian is getting looser all the time.

  189. I’m not sure I’ve followed everything, but I’m going to offer my up my version of a rant. It is deplorable that the Britney’s of the world get to say the same things I said to my husband at our wedding, knowing dern well they’re only saying what they have to say in order to have that rockin’ awesome party and an AMAZIN’ dress – when my brother and his ‘life partner’(dumb, dumb, dumb word) – who’ve been together for 12yrs are not allowed to say those words and have them recognized legally. Deplorable. And what is worse… why does Ms. Sheila get to foster 4 kids – just enough to cover the rent for her trailer lot – and she has absolutely no intent of permanent adoption – yet again my brother, should he want to adopt (he doesn’t) still can’t. Where’s the logic in that? I know – preaching to the choir – but a rant is best served to those you know will eat it up!

    an aside – the Corcorran is my favorite museum in DC, but I’m fairly certain a showing of The Remains would not be my first pick. Although I had a friend in college who completed his photography art final with road kill pictures. He tried to explain it to me in way deep art students are wont to do, but to too literal me… just road kill.

  190. Shelby gets very annoyed with my air drying. I always tell her she should be grateful I use a towel. It’s good to know there are other air-dryers that are not toddlers.

  191. Has anyone ever seen the documovie called ‘Jesus Camp’. It’s about an evangelical camp where they train and brainwash children into believing they’re the next Jerry Falwell, or Billy Graham. My response after seeing it was somewhere along the lines of Holy Crap! <– pun intended.

  192. When I lived out west where the air is “dry” getting on my motorcycle was a great way to air dry. Some days in the midwest its too humid to air dry as some of you know all too well.

  193. particles, that film is about a fundamentalist camp. ;)

    (and exactly what my life was like minus speaking in tongues)

  194. Michael T, speaking of air-drying on a motorcyle…my husband once saw a man on a motorcycle wearing NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING but a pair of booty shorts. Dude wasn’t even wearing SHOES.

  195. It’s very dangerous to ride a motorcycle without shoes.

  196. Kate,
    Free ballin at 50 mph is heaven. I would do it out in the desert for a short time here and there. But I would always wear shoes. Kinda like streakin. My ex boy scout troop would have just shook thier heads and said there goes Mike again.

  197. Haven exactly

  198. Michael T: ha! I spent a lot of time as a teenager on a motorcycle — it’s funny how we both landed on the same thing.

  199. I kind of figured that guy really wanted to model for those transparent sheets in the middle of the H volume of the World Book Encyclopedia.

  200. And I’m FREEEEEEEEEE…FREE BALLIN’!

  201. Well someone forgot to tell them they are not evangelicals then.

    Evangelicalism main argument is that the Bible is THE authority. They also suffer from “born-again-ism”.
    See the pattern of ISM. Kinda like Alcoholism but replace the alcohol with the Bible and Jesus, and I don’t mean Jesus the man.

  202. I would very much like to hear more about being raised either fundamentalist or evangelical. Also: a cult would be fascinating, as would anything involving the terms ‘anarchist’ or ‘fruititarian.’

    Hey, speaking of anarchy, do we know anything about Dorian’s dad?

  203. Jesus Camp scared the living daylights out of me.

    I also thought it was about an evangelical camp. Perhaps the filmmaker muddied the waters a bit.

  204. Great minds Haven. I figure you can ride then ?

  205. Also, and maybe this is semantic but it does matter: you can be an evangelical anything. To be evangelical is to believe in a sacred mission of persuasion. If I, as a member of Group A, for instance, don’t tell you what I believe and convince you to believe it as well, you will die and spend the eternity doing laps around Fire Lake. There are evangelical Quakers; there are evangelical vegetarians. Fundamentalists are almost ALWAYS evangelical; evangelicals don’t have to be fundamentalists.

  206. I don’t know how anyone can ride a motorcycle naked. Was he riding in an environment free of bugs and free flying sand? It had to hurt. I got caught in a rain shower on the back of a bike once. It was the most horrifying and painful thing I’ve experienced, with the exception of childbirth.

  207. okay, technically a fundamentalist can also be evangelical. my point is that there is a distinction between a fundamentalist and the rest of Christianity. fundamentalists are MUCH more stringent… see my previous post on the difference b/n the two.

    Haven, if you want stories, I got stories!

  208. I’ve never seen Jesus Camp, but from what I heard it was NOTHING like any church camp I had ever been to.

    The ones I went to were extremely similar to the one in Couch, only unlike Haven my heart opened like a flower. I sometimes feel like I am just really susceptible to mob psychology. Later I met all these people who had intellectual conversions and I became really embarrassed that my big moment involved a piano and “I surrender all.”

    I’m not super clear about the divisions between E & F, but I do know that the church I grew up in wasn’t fundamentalist. My parents aren’t fundamentalist. Women were ordained to be ministers. There were some wierd-ass illogical rules that pertain to personal holiness, and they have mostly all been shot down now (I am expecting beer to be legal in the next 20 years, until then we’ll stay under the radar.)

    My pastor’s daughter wears makeup. Pants. Goes to the movies. School dances. Loves High School Musical. She’s “normal.”

    I was not normal, but I blame it at least as much on my cute parents, who are social misfits, as I do my religious tradition. I was raised by people of faith who were just completely disconnected to the current culture. They liked it that way!

  209. ohhhhhhhh overlap – WHAT HAVEN SAID!!!

  210. Michael T., I could back in the day. My high school boyfriend had a Honda 750, which I loved, and I was very fond of vintage BMWs, in part because of their weight. I weigh less than 120 pounds, so if a bike starts to fall, for me it’s no different than if a horse decides to lie down. Now I’m a serious, very very grave, unfrivolous adult, and no longer do the lunatic things I did in my sorry, wasted youth.

    By ‘sorry’ I mean SORRY, MOM.

  211. Oh and I do not consider myself to be evangelical. Evangelism gives me hives.

  212. O.k. it wasn’t as horrifying as one of the 50,000 times I woke up not knowing where the hell I was or who I was with, but you get my meaning right?

    …and then that movie was about the making of a fundamental evangelical army, of people who will always vote morality issues.

  213. My friend of almost 20 years has become evangelical leaning towards Fundamentalism (sp) he has become very militant in his beliefs. The Bible word for word and other things. I have a very hard time accepting. I keep messing up and saying GD around him and he tell me something like it isnt god’s fault or something like that. He seems to wish for people not like him to burn or whatever. Its like he got assimilated by creatures from the planet X.
    We are trying to maintain a friendship. I have little tolerance for unforgiving religous attitudes and he is we you can imagine its hard.

  214. Microsoft has positions with the title, “Evangelical.” I think this certifies them as a cult.

  215. I feel fairly confident that if anyone tried to brainwash me, there would be a mess of problems.

  216. My suspicions are confirmed.

  217. Carrie, TWO POINTS.

  218. Side comment: POS, that audio punking Palin on your blog is hilarious. Punker getting progressively more and more … outre … with his comments (“I bet you’re hot in bed!”) — I think you might could say she got a few heads up and ignored them.

  219. I love me some points!

  220. hahahahahahaha I can just see someone trying to brainwash you! They’d have to get by all the reason and logic and such — the cost:benefit ratio would be dismal.

  221. particles, yes absolutely. the movie is HORRIFYING and HORRIFYING b/c it is ALL TRUE.

    ironic though, when young preacher boy meets his idol Ted Haggart and good ole Ted treats him like shit. wonder if Ted’s fall from grace affected that boy’s faith?

  222. HAVEN does this mean you are not going to join my church/home for wayward girls?

    The Reverend Michael T provides cut rate absolution every Sunday.

  223. also: I have wanted a motorcycle since I was ten years old. I still, DESPERATELY, want one.

    One day, my friends…. one day.

  224. Carrie — the cost:benefit ratio, exactly.

    It’s tragic that any poor child had a person named ‘Haggart’ as an idol. I assume this isn’t a character at Hogwarts or I would have remembered.

  225. Things I grew up with:

    No alcohol or cigarettes
    No movies in a theater (PLENTY at home on the VCR)
    NO SCHOOL DANCES
    No Rock Music (this has less to do with religion and more to do with the fact that my parents only listened to classical, marches, showtunes and whatever novelty music was popular on NPR. By the time I was 12 this rule was null and void. Little did they know how much I heard on the school bus!)

    YES to Christian Mysticism and Intellectuals of all kinds.
    YES to awesome movies and books, especially sci-fi, fantasy, and other things that would make fundies shake in their boots.
    YES to culture. Museums, music, poetry, the arts.
    YES to all holidays, even Halloween. We love spooky stuff.

  226. Michael T., I’ve been in your church for YEARS.

  227. Wasn’t Haggart in the band Damn Yankees?

  228. Cut-rate absolution…Michael, do you make all your profit on volume?

  229. Kate, thank you for the very succinct report. I like this model. I got in trouble with a professor in seminary once (well, not in trouble) (more like, “It’s entirely possible she’s going to say something politically incorrect AGAIN”) for saying, at the beginning of a World’s Religions class, “Could we begin by just answering the bottom line question of their opinion on women, and the position of women in religious and political hierarchies?” The answer was, “That can be very complicated.” I argued, “Or it can be painfully simple.”

  230. I got involved with a group of fundies for a while. It was a WEIRD situation. I told my mom I didn’t think women should be ministers. She just sat there. She’s so patient.

  231. I have a friend who is an evangelical foodie, she loves to totally ruin a good thing by telling anyone who will listen all things bad about that good thing. I don’t know if she’s actually converted anyone.

    It’s kinda like the Woody Harrelson movie, ‘Go Further’, where one of his converts spends his time yelling through a bullhorn all the gross disgusting things, like blood and puss, that are in homogenized milk.

  232. Kate, do you remember your reasoning at the time?

  233. Carrie
    I must be doing this by volume
    There are have members I didnt even know about.

  234. Also, my parents are not indicative of most Nazarenes I have met. Until we got our most recent pastor they pretty much haven’t related to anyone at church except for the friends they knew from Olivet Nazarene University.

  235. POS…that was me too! Then last month I bought nothing but processed food in an effort to save time, and I’ve been sick twice. I’m trying to find a balance here.

    My reasoning? Basing my thoughts on the rules laid down in a patriarchal society and St. Paul. How did letters written to a very specific group of people become instructions for everyone?

  236. St. Paul had some very effective PR, it seems.

  237. I’m really am curious though…when he was writing those letters, did he know they would someday be scripture?

  238. Haven, I’m glad you didn’t get kicked of seminary for that, unlike your poor mother and her catholic Sunday School.

  239. Would someone jump in and answer Kate’s question about Paul?

  240. I didn’t get kicked out of seminary for anything. Isn’t that a puzzle? Their tolerance deepened my love for Quakers even more.

  241. You may think fruitarians are as odd as it gets. I know a man whose father believed he’d reach a stage as a yogi where he would live on air. An airitarian, if you will. An oxygenitarian. Where is Matt in Nebraska? Is this a day of the week, or something else?

  242. Their tolerance must be overwhelming hehe

    Kate it was on the tip of my tongue but I swallowed damn !

  243. Yes, where is Matt? Reading Kate’s question, I was put in mind of the killer von Steuben story. I’ll bet he could tell you why the gerbils in my brain went there.

  244. I was going to jump in but then I realized I don’t have a clue.

  245. Is that Mr. Smith’s father? Oh, how I worshiped that book.

  246. Kate,

    Re: Paul. I have no reason to believe that he expected his words to be taken literally for thousands of years. My view is that he thought he was a preacher, just like any other preacher. And occasionally he would interrupt his preaching to say “now, guys, this I am about to write isn’t really from God, necessarily… it’s just my opinion, so maybe keep that in mind.”

  247. Exellent Amanda

  248. Amanda, that’s what I think too.

    I need to check into this whole Quaker business, it seems.

  249. Speaking of fruit, Haven would you expound a bit on the woman at your church who was afraid of seeds?

  250. Whatever became of Satanic Ritual Abuse? Where did that go?

  251. Kate, fear is fear, you know.

  252. Back when I went to “church” last year sometime, we had a quaker come visit and he told us they gather in a circle, like an AA meeting, but they just sit there and don’t say anything, unless of course, the spirit moves them.

  253. That’s what I’d like to know too. I’ve heard so many conflicting things.

    I remember watching a special on some news magazine show about a supposed Satanic cult in the woods who sacrificed babies, and the police decided that it couldn’t be true because their weren’t a bunch of missing children and there WEREN’T ANY BIRTH RECORDS. I was kind of astounded. What an enormous leap of logic. If, and I do mean IF, I am not saying was real, but IF you were keeping women prisoner just to harvest their babies for a blood ritual would you take her to a hospital to give birth? Would you register a birth certificate?

  254. Also, apparently the daughters of some woman who once wanted to punch in the face over a guy, anyway, her daughters were apparently taken out of school by their teacher and ritually abused. It was on Inside Edition I think.

  255. POS, I believe you heard the Quakers for Dummies edition, delivered by a Dummie. Because that ain’t right.

  256. just HOW ironic is it that tonight i am watching a movie with both Ben Kingsley AND Woody Harrelson….

  257. She wanted to punch ME in the face over a guy. That wasn’t clear, because I left out some words.

  258. I want to get the lowdown on Quakerism, but I know we have to wait for THE BOOK.

  259. Kate, you are one degree of separation from people who were satanically abused in a ritualistic fashion AND were on INSIDE EDITION? This is Augusten’s dream come true. Well, and mine.

  260. Amber should post more. She is my bestest friend and always has wicked smart things to say. (Did I mention it was she who made me read Something Rising?:) )

    Religion is such an interesting topic, especially in the South. I practice Catholicism, but I have some strange-ass leanings of which the Church would disapprove. For instance, I have several books on animal totems (check out Animal Wise by Ted Andrews), tarot cards (because there might be something to mysticism), etc.

    I had a friend in high school who was sooooooooooo Baptist (of the southern baptist persuasion–read gods in Alabama by Joshiyln Jackson to learn more of this type…) she thought her artistic ability (amazing by the way) had been given to her by God as a TEST to see if she could RESIST its lure in order to be more true to Him. God made her an artist so that she could deny her talent to be a better worshipper. Her pastor agreed.

    I think that bears repeating. HER PASTOR AGREED.

    She also believes in the 7-day creation, woman are sub-whatever to men, birthing machines and it’s all because God DOESN’T LOVE WOMEN BECAUSE OF EVE.

    Now, I’m the first one to admit that many Christian sects including my dear crazy-ass Catholic church keep the ladies as second-class citizens (my school won’t let our insurance company pay for my birth control because…………yeah.) but some of these fundamentalist groups (how I cringed reading The Used World because I KNEW REBEKAH’s FATHER) make me crazy. And my friend, who is actually pretty smart, STILL DRINKS THE KOOL-AID.

    Wow. I don’t know where the rant came from. Really.

    Oh. Re: Prop. 8. Assholes. I don’t understand how people can say that it’s anti-marriage, that granting gay/lesbians the right to marry will somehow UNDERMINE the institution of marriage. One of my good friends (misguided, misguided) told me that it was because gay relationships were so…seedy. Lots and lots of sex, no monogamy–and I was like, since when did heteros get the corner on monogamy? And tell me AGAIN what’s the divorce rate for heteros? We don’t have the corner on healthy relationships by any means, and people who think we do are smoking CRACK.

    My bro went and got hitched in Montreal. I was the best “man.” I cried and cried. It was a beautiful day in a gorgeous, friendly city.

    Oi. Time for bed. Have a lovely night!

  261. Note: Paul was a former tax collector.

  262. HAHA Yeah, it’s just like me to get the Quakers for Dummies version.

    I just found there website and this is what it says.

    “Friends meet in silence to worship God. In the silence, pressures of the everyday world recede and we enter into communion with the Holy Spirit. We bring our burdens, prayers, thanksgiving and praise, offering them to God. In the silence, we seek to become aware of the presence of God. It is not so much a time of thinking as a time of being receptive� of silent listening� of waiting for the spirit of God to enter into our being.

    Out of this silence, a worshipper may be prompted to share aloud a word of prayer or praise, voice a concern or query, or express a spiritual insight. We interpret this as the Light of God’s Spirit entering into our lives.

    We come to Meeting not with prepared sermons, but with prepared hearts and minds made ready by our endeavor to live daily in the Spirit. We find the experience of worshipping together in the manner of Friends to be nourishing to our daily lives. We believe this way of worship helps us grow toward lives of inner peace and toward increasing love for all God’s children.

    Everyone is welcome at our meeting for worship. Membership is open to fellow seekers of the spiritual life who feel at home with us.”

  263. No, he was a pharisee. You are thinking of Matthew.

  264. I think Paul, like all great writers, was putting down words for the ages and knew it as he was writing it. He did produce a lot of egotistical crap, but the editing those days wasn’t that great, yet, man oh man, he hit the mark on a lot of paragraphs. First Corinithians, I am thinking, is quite good. I like Galatians for the sports analogies. The best book to ever put Paul in a realistic light as a character was written by Walter Wangerin. He is a professor at Valparaiso University and taught for a while at the University of Evansville. The book he wrote is called simply, Paul.

  265. Hey! I was just thinking “I wonder where Lightening Bug is?” and there she is, just like a bug with lights on it’s butt. :)

  266. Oh, Lightning Bug, if only you knew how many talents I am suppressing in order to prove my love for God, who tested me by giving them to me. I couldn’t begin to list all the things I’m not doing.

    POS, that’s a very good definition of Quaker worship.

  267. George…I read Book of the Dun Cow before I was old enough to understand it. I need to remedy that.

    I believe that Paul was doing both, writing for the ages and writing for a group, and that it’s up to us to sift through and find the actual truth of what he is saying for us. There are logical explanations for pretty much all of it, when you look at it in that time and of that place.

    LB…yes, to all you said. My thoughts exactly.

    Haven, yes, yes I am. See, once again, why I have to write this damn book that is plaguing me.

  268. Woot!

  269. I never even got on a bike, that’s how much I love GOD. I gave up bike riding before it was even an OPTION.

  270. Kate: Have you read the Gnostic gospels? I do think Paul would have spent a little more time rewriting had he known what some of his work was going to be used in justifying all kinds of non-Christian behavior. I mean, once you see your own stuff in print, don’t you wince ever so often when reading a sentence that didn’t quite get at what you were trying to say.

    But there it is: in print.

  271. i wish i could convey, in any words at all, what it felt like to be eight years old, swinging on my swing set, and believing without a doubt that God was going to come back any minute and take us all to heaven. so i started singing all the hymns and spiritual songs i could think of to encourage him to just go ahead and do that.

    ummm… that didn’t work.

  272. Kate, that was not God talking about the bike. I know from God and bikes and they’re not on the list.

  273. My experience with Evangelical Christians is WAY different than Amanda’s. I would go with Haven’s that the Evangelical Fundamentalists are more descriptive of my experience of Evangelicals.

    Northern Fundamental Baptist:

    age 4 – 17 . . . while about 17-20 I was devoid of religion and testing the New Age waters.

    No rock music. Lots of evangelists visiting and we went to church 7 days week, until midnight and did our homework after during revivals. one revival lasted 3 months. Said evangelists would prove via photos, slides, and the playing of rock music backwards that rock music was Satanic. Especially “Hotel California” Not even Amy Grant or any “christian rock” is ok – it must be sober . . . unpleasant . . . and played by a tone deaf organist and a 4 fingered pianist.

    skirts must touch the floor when girl is kneeling. Even cheerleading skirts which are pleated culottes must touch the floor when kneeling.

    girls must wear slips and camisoles with everything.

    only one button unbuttoned. Even if it is a Jessica McClintock dress with 105 buttons from chin to waist, only ONE button can be unbuttoned.

    no skirts may be so tight as to “cup” the buttocks.

    all slits (the 80′s major slits) must be sewn shut to the proper kneeling knee height or pinned with safety pins.

    bra straps and slip straps must be safety pinned together so as not to bring attention to undergarments

    no movies.

    no blue jeans.

    no shorts.

    shoes are optional.

    no spaghetti straps or sleeveless ANYTHING

    boys’ hair must not touch their eyebrows nor their ears, nor their collars.

    shirts must be tucked in

    girls nails can be no longer than the tip of their finger when placing said tip on tabletop

    clear to pink nail polish ONLY

    one single ear piercing, one per ear for girls.

    no ear piercing for men

    6 inches between all persons at all times unless married (um, obviously opposite sexes are the only eligible for marriage)

    women can only serve as: cleaners, pianists, organists, Sunday School Teachers, or Deaconess (the deaconness’s may not be divorced, and they only have to pay for and prepare the grape juice for the communion)

    one must not question anything said by any adult.

    girls may not run for student counsel president as only a boy can be a leader

    holidays are fine as long as you remember that they are really about Jesus, his birth, or his death, or his resurrection. anything else is satanic.

    Stephen King is satanic.

    All other religions, including the Black Baptist are going to hell.

    Girls who are not virgins are trash and no man will ever want them and they are RUINED

    I have more . . .

  274. I tell ya, the hardest talent for me to suppress is my tapdancing, hulahoop spinning, Broadway singing one. I could really really be on American’s Got Talent. Unfortunately, Job’s got nothing on me, and I gotta tuck those abilities up under the bushel where the bible said they belong…

    Oh, damn. That’s right. The bible said the OPPOSITE. Why is it that even the devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes? I am no bible scholar but Paul only said one thing that really didn’t set my teeth on edge, and it’s the whole “love is patient” bit. Which unfortunately, I do have trouble with.

  275. a women’s period is a sign and reminder of the way that women have lead men into sin for 6000 years.

    there were no dinosaurs, they have it wrong.

    a scientist has recorded people screaming from hell from a hole he drilled into the ground

  276. George…no I haven’t. I was SCARED.

    Amanda…I can’t tell you how many times things got TOO quiet, and I really thought everyone had been raptured and I was LEFT BEHIND.

    Ha…the spell check doesn’t like that word. Suggested “Ruptured.”

  277. Poor little Amanda! Trying to bring about Armageddon with her sing-along. I don’t mean to sound snarky; that is so sweet. Well, except for the Armageddon part. Well, the religion part is scary. But the singing on the swing-set is adorable.

  278. Hi everyone, I am skipping to the end to say Hallejulah and Amen. I got to vote, my dad is alive, Obama won, I read Zippy today in bed, cover to cover (aside from the rabbit bit which I had done already.) I can die happy tonight.

  279. Okay, a few points. Four to be exact.

    1.
    right here on this bog, I called NC and Indiana blue HOURS before yall noticed it WENT blue. i was/am so thrilled for Haven our buttercup because NOBODY WENT OBAMARAMA like haven. she was an Obama FOO. i feel she tipped NC into the blue with some of her witchy power.
    2.
    Sher, i think i need a PRAYER FLAG. long story short: i lost my ad job august 1 and while that set my SOUL FREE, selling my house is taking longer than one would hope. and my ex is just a lost soul, aint no money comin from that area,so i need a prayer flag to protect pablo and me/ to sell my house for the (very reasonable and lowered) asking price ….and safe passage from CA to NC for Pablo and me. will barter for signed books and obama stickers.

    3. george? i heard you got an impeccably gorgeous black leather jacket for $25 at Goodwill. is this TRUE?

    4. now about riding motorcyces naked. yes George,you knew i would br the one to put this subject to bed,didnt you? go ahead, fee smug,george. you know me and al THAT. but? the things that are important to wear on a motorcycle are leather boots (DARLING on legs, pus they”ll keep your feet on you if you crash,) leather jacket (ALSO VERY CHIC, ditto about the arms and skin thing) GLOVES (if you want to have hands, i personally find my hands very useful — and leather gloves are also cool)a hemet (by law in CA – a good law) and a tee shirt and a jeans or a cotton skirt, maybe even a MODERATE miniskirt. you do not have to wear panties. in fact, not wearing them on a really great motorcycle ride with a nice, responsible yet slightly rogue-ish man at the wheel is a WHOLE lot of fun for no money. way fun…not just for you, but for those who might be there when your skirt rides up in the wind. as it will do at times. you can always pull it down if you feel modest.

    xo

    sfc

  280. And by the way (yeah I know I said I was going to bed…) I think it is HYSTERICAL that the clock on this blog is “wrong.” mwah hahahahahaha.

  281. We had a preacher who used to love to talk about the rapture. Scared the crap out of a lot of kids. I always figured I’d be one of those left behind to fend for myself in some dystopia that remained after all the good folks got a free heavenly pass.

    As it came to pass, the preacher himself discovered a little rapture of his own when he had an affair with the choir director’s wife. The only good that came out that was the choir director quit the church which meant an end — finally — to his singing Oh Holy Night at Christmas, thus relieving the congregation of lying to him by telling him what a great job he had done when he clearly missed all the tough notes on the word: DEEEEEE VINE!!!!

  282. Sher. Oh Lordy. I thought religion like that was an invented by Hollywood to market the movie “Footloose.”

  283. Suzanne, it’s very nice that you add that bit at the end, about pulling down your miniskirt if you’re feeling modest on a motorcycle whilst not wearing any panties. I’m glad I read all the way through, else I wouldn’t have known to do when feelings of modesty overwhelmed me!

    xo

  284. Suzanne: help me out a little hear, you others, too. Is that what is meant by going commando?

  285. Kate, if the Rapture comes, can I have your MixMaster blender?

  286. Yes, I believe it is…and it’s not encouraged by Catholics either. :)

  287. sher, that is exactly like what i grew up with. did i mistype somewhere?

  288. You are saying I can ride a bike? But mighten it require me to wear a split skirt, which, lets face it, is awfully close to pants? A man’s garment?

    (I am not kidding…I had this exact conversation with a friend of mine. Only it was about riding horses. A wholesome outdoor activity but apparently forbidden to girls due to wardrobe)

  289. George: Commando = no under drawers under your pants (or in Ms. Suzanne’s case, mini skirt)

    What were we talking about again?

  290. Suz: so you heard about my great $25 leather jacket. For a peak, girl, get thyself over to the yahoo site. you’ll find the picture and yes, that is also a golf tie I am wearing.

  291. Haven, if I am raptured, not only can you have my Pink Kitchenaid but you can also have our replacement recliner that Value City Furniture dropped off today. In fact, judging by Hank’s expression you could probably have it NOW.

    Don’t buy stuff from Value City Furniture.

  292. Amanda: I bet the guy who wrote those rules grew hair in his palm! Did anyone check. “cup” the buttoocks, indeed.

  293. no drinking

    no smoking

    basically if you are having fun, you must be doing something wrong

    catholics are idol worshippers, especially because they worship and pray to a woman – jesus’ mother who is not divine

    there is no reincarnation (because they decided so 500 years ago, as I was told when I said I had found more than 100 verses implying reincarnation)

    walt disney world is to be banned because they have “gay days” and the gays will be killed out because aids was sent by GOD to punish them for their Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?) sins.

    no electric musical instruments

    minimal makeup, because if the barn needs painted – paint it.

    no mastrubation. It is self-abuse and it is wasting the pleasure the belongs only to a married man and woman. (I once found my youth pastor’s bible, looked inside to see whose it was and this was written in the end papers “I will not pleasure myself, it is a sin against God and the wife that God has waiting for me”) – I handed it back to him with that page open!

    woman should not accent their breasts

    above our exiting doors to the outside were these words “You are NOW entering the MISSION FIELD” – it was our duty to save everyone we met from the fires of hell.

    we watched movies made by bob jones university where a man had a MOTORCYCLE accident and he woke up in HELL, burning and had worms crawling all over him.

  294. K., drape that ugly thing in some bear fur, what Hank probably calls a ‘cape.’ A big piece of bear can dress up any value furniture.

  295. Also, everyone needs to remember that we are free to behave any way we wish and we’ll be all right, because George can perform exorcisms. He will get those demons right OUT.

  296. Sher’s people would have hated my people. When my nana went back to Texas after having spent the summer with us, we had dinner in our underwear–mom, dad, one bro, and me. The other bro and sis covered their eyes, slurped up their pasta, and left the table quickly enough to knock over chairs. Then Dad started a spaghetti sauce food fight. :)

    I feel like I am missing out on the panty-less motorcycle rides. I need to find me a man with a bike!

  297. That is a most excellent idea. It will go nicely with the chocolate brown color.

    However, it won’t solve the fact that he has to STAND up in order to shove the recliner shut. We miss our old one, which was green and looked like a sea shell. We drove it there THREE times to get repaired, and it still wound up looking like a piece of Alice in Wonderland furniture, and not in a good way.

  298. I’m going to tell Hank to turn in his bear clubbing stick for a motorcycle. I need to air dry.

  299. Yes, I will start talking to those demons in a gentle, Southern Indiana voice, telling the same damn stories over and over again, dispensing some useless advice involving hygiene, and read a month’s worth of weather forecasts for the Gobi desert…they come tearing out of someone’s soul quicker than you can imagine.

  300. Amanda – your evangelist definition seeme very relaxed and not at all the fundamentalist evangelicals (true missionaries) that I grew up with . . . I think Haven clarified evangelical . . .but it is confusing because one group will call apples bananas and so forth . . . all these offshoots . . . I was just saying that I felt evangelical christians (as I experienced them then and now) were more rabid and fanatical and judgemental and psycho)

  301. ya know… aside from the swingset story, which is so incredibly vivid i have hives now, i am not much profiting from remembering the Joys O Fundie.

    so i repeat: YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY OBAMA!!!!!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PROP 8!!!!

  302. You can air-dry on a horse, too, Kate. But I can’t begin to tell you how many levels of sin that would be. George probably knows.

  303. true missionaires doesn’t seem right . . . I mean they felt it was their god-given directive to save all the people going to hell (and that was any person that didn’t believe in the fundamental baptist and KJV bible) . . . so we were supposed to hand out a minimum number of tracs per week, invite a certain number to church, witness at all times, “save” “save” all those lost and doomed people

  304. i see Sher. I did attempt to clarify later that what we experienced was both evangelical and fundamentalist. i, and you apparently, grew up fundamentalist and evangelical. someone who is evangelical Christian but not fundamentalist is the loosey goosey type. obviously this means they will unfortunately go to hell.

  305. I cannot help but wear clothes that cup the buttocks. My buttocks will allow for nothing else.

  306. Air Dry on a HORSE. MONKEY SEX BOOK!

  307. I’m turning in early tonight, Blog Babies — you all can just keep tearing it up. I’ve had a long few days and I think sleep is in order.

    EEWWW, what if Joys O Fundy was a candy bar? That would be some scary nougat, right there.

  308. now I’m depressed

  309. Air-dryin’ while horseback sounds kinda nasty to this old codger. Question: is it bareback, side saddle, cowboy style…just whatchall’ talking about here?

  310. when I go back to church with my mom I just am STUNNED at the blank, sheep faces that just stare forward and nod in agreement . . . I have groaned, jumped up and left during so many services, I just run outside crying and I have never made my kids go back after my 3 year old son was crying after Sunday School that he was going be burned alive by Satan because he was not saved.

  311. ba ha haa haaha ha! Read the News? O’bama Dream Team!
    Colin Powell! Chuck Hagel! Robt. Kennedy, Jr.! Carolyn Kennedy! How SWEET IT IS!

    It could only get BETTER if they get AQUAMAN for Secretary of the Ocean!

    Hey, you wanna hear about my O’bama door-to-dooring last Sunday? It was Me, my friend “Diamond Jim” H., and my son Max.

    Jimmy is full-tilt liberal. He has a “KILL YOUR TELEVISION” bumpersticker and everything. He gets away with it cause he is like some magic faith healer for electric wheel-chairs and those zippy carts fat people ride around in. There isn’t one of those he can’t fix. So- his co-workers all love/hate him.

    I call him names all the time and he finds it hilarious. He and his wife Sheila are really cool. THey live right close to here.

    Anyhow, the county democrats gave us our orders, and
    off we went. WAAAY north of Cornhusker highway, in a brand spanking new housing development. It was a beautifull Indian Summer day. Just eerie-pretty. One of the streets was called “Watercress Lane.” I shit you not! I thought, what’s next, Tupperware Village Court?

    Every house looked exactly the same. And there was NOBODY OUTSIDE. Like in the twi-light zone.

    We had a map and lists of houses to go to. We got all mixed up once. How could we lose??

    One thing I soon discovered, when you’d go to a house, most of the time, there was some guy in there asnooze on the couch! Better to not rouse them. Just leave the little sign on the doorknob.

    Oklahoma beat the hell out of the huskers the day before. Healing naps for all. But not us.Damn it, we had fliers to deliver!

    Anyway, we’d all cover a few blocks, then go back to
    the command-car (I insisted it be called as such), move ahead a ways, go to a few more houses. One thing, Earl Scudder’s people had been there before us. Man, the Scuds get EVERYWHERE first. Scudder was running for regent. I’ll bet if you pried up a rock in the middle of a field – well, there’d be an Earl Scudder flier there. Land on the moon? You’d come out of the module and, yep, Scudder flier. What a team Earl has. And you never see them. They are like the damn tooth fairy or ninjas or something!

    After awhile, we saw some other guys across the street, doing the same thing! Delivering flyers.
    We eyed each other. I waved. They waved. I walked right over to them. Some college kids. They were like WTF??? Ha haa, silly Cro-magnons, I am here to eat you!!

    It turned out we were all O’bama people. Our territories overlapped. So: I say “How do we know you aren’t REPUBLICANS trying to
    mix us all up?” They thought I was serious! One goes, well, look at the bumper sticker on my car…” It was an O’bama sticker. “BULLSHIT” I said. “Your Republican tricks don’t fool me! Max, Jimmy, Grab those rakes! (there were some lawn tools on this lawn). SEIZE THEM!” Then they realized I was joking.
    They thought it was pretty funny.

    In Nebraska, Lincoln and Omaha went O’bama. That was all. At least we didn’t get skunked. You watch, it’ll get better.

  312. I have to take a break and get a massage . . . commando

    unfortunately nothing can follow because I can’t even bend my knees without screaming – definately going for the early sleeping pills and konking out tonight

  313. Sher…I think I may have missed the nature of your health problem…fill me in?

  314. Good one, Matt. I thought that kind of stuff only happened in DC

  315. George, is that where you live?

  316. I live in Alexandria, Va., now, but for a time I lived in DC — about 15 blocks from the Capitol.

  317. …but downtown DC is only four stoplights and a bridge across the Potomac…not that I cross the river much these days since I work in Arlington.

  318. I knew a guy who went there – he went to the Smithsonian Snstitution! He said they had a live family there on exhibit. They were from Utah, and they had never SEEN A SALAD BAR! You could talk to them thru the glass and they’d tell you about their experience.

  319. Well, he got a little mixed up. I know that exhibit you are talking about. Indeed the family behind the glass was from Utah, but they had never before seen a black person or a white person who wasn’t wearing a cowboy hat or a man with only one wife.

    The name of the exhibit was Living Cultural Shock!

  320. …they was stupified

  321. Well, I hate to be a wiener, but I have to go read to the kids, and do some more laundry, and cook some food for tomorrow! It is rainy and sleepy here.

  322. I need to sleep too.

  323. ha haaaaaaadkkkkllf Living Clutlkdddddddd

    Tha t funny.

  324. Matt…love your posts…It was a great night last night…all the way to now. I am about ready to cash it in myself.

  325. Funny. )Recovering).
    See you later, George!

  326. …so am I closing this site tonight all by myself? Sure looks that way.

  327. “woman should not accent their breasts”

    What does that even mean? Don’t wear bras?

  328. It is the CAKE LADY! Goodnight for her too!

  329. NO – that means if they are making their breasts have
    voices, like as in a puppet show, they must not use accents! ONLY AMERICAN TALK WORDS!!

    Oh, I am sorry, I get sleepy I get all silly-headed.

  330. Hahahaha. ‘Night, Matt. ;)

  331. well – once I had received a rather 50′s siren-ish shirt and skirt combo – pencil skirt (pink) with black BIG buttons down the back and a pink black polka dot shirtwaist with a THICK patent leather belt (obvious purchased by the naughty preacher’s kid) . . .anyway, I got demerits because this outfit both “accented” my breasts (which were D’s) and “cupped” my buttocks – much too provacative for Baptist . . .

  332. :: cracks up :: All the while I’m reading about your outfit, I’m thinking, “this sounds bloody amazing”. of course it wasn’t appropriate.

  333. oh kate cake,

    originally i hurt my back when I was 21 and was rearended at a traffic light at one of the busiest intersections in Cobb County, GA . . . I was the virtual pingpong between cars . . . broketh my back . . . (well cracked it) . . . then I was sent by the Dr (whom I was dating) to see a physical therapist . . . who turned out to be Donny Bear . . . and agents all my post-divorce promises I freaking fell in love with him and we got married and had babies (which also hurt my back more) and it goes out periodically and I should be in a hospital but I hate catheters and I have spent TOO many of my days in hospitals and Don in theory can take care of me except he has so many patients right now that he can’t take off and take care of me so I go pee a few times a day and he makes me found when he gets home and the kids fetch my diet cokes . . . .

    but I have a friend coming over tomorrow to help me pack up artwork to ship and so all is well, except for my back

    sneezing is the worst

  334. kittery – it was the hottest outfit! I’ll have to see if I have pictures somewhere it was so retro-50′s eighties . . . lord!

  335. I imagine it was. :) I love pencil skirts for that reason. ;) Pair them with black boots – the knee high kind? Oh crikey. ;)

  336. yes black boots rock – this was a summer out fit though so I had black stilettos with a high ankle strap . . .

  337. i probably gave the preacher/principal a boner, he sat behind his desk the whole time!

  338. Most excellent. :) Jeez. I’m getting all inspired to not wear jeans tomorrow and squeeze my tush into something nifty. Then again, I’ll probably end up in my velvety “fat arse” pants with a hoodie, lol.

  339. Sher? I’m still laughing. Amazing. If that was the case, was he at least covert about it? My AP Lit teacher was FOREVER craning over my shoulder and looking down my shirts. (Button-up 95% of the time). Gross.

  340. yeah, I hear you – I have been in PJ’s for 3 days (clean ones each day though) . . . but then yesterday my 6 year old fell in the neighbor’s driveway and it is my rule NOT to leave my own driveway in PJ’s so I am screaming – “is she ok? Is she bleeding?” anything not to step past the sidewalk/the mailbox/driveway.

    they were SO obviously pjs’ becasue they had fortune cookies all over them . . .

  341. well I don’t know if he had a boner, that was speculation . . .but we did have a teacher at this parochial school who had an affair with a junior girl and he was married and had kids . . . so somebody was getting boners!

  342. It’s so reassuring to know that half the people that post here only get dressed when they have to, hah. I thought I was the only one that did that, aside .. from sad, clinical people. I was wondering if there was something wrong with me..

  343. Ah, school drama. How I *don’t* miss it. :)
    Oh, and you know the best part of my skeazy teacher? After months of dealing with his dragon breath on my neck, I finally confided in a teacher that I trusted. She laughed and said, “he’s like that with everybody”. Really?! So uniform creepiness is okay. Partial creepiness is not. ?

  344. I was just considering today if I could just be considered eccentric if I decided to keep this look.

    Right now I have on:

    flannel pj bottoms, blue socks with monkeys and bananas on them, white terry cloth slippers because my toes are always cold and I keep slipping on the hardwoods, a blue “Seaside FL” teashirt AND a tan cable knit sweater wrap . . . I am so comfortable and I see no reason why I shouldn’t be able to be comfortable.

    However, my IDOL, Tim Gunn, would say that I am “slobbified” and I would hate to dispoint him.

  345. yes – sexual harrassment is OK as long as there is no discrimination???

    lordy lordy?!

  346. Aw, I’ll be slobbified with you! At my ‘average’, DEFINITELY not worst, and not the best either, I’m wearing jeans (or capris) and either a button-up shirt or a tshirt with my converse black and white sneakers which are so beat up, if it’s misty outside, my feet get soaked. Occasionally, I’ll see people look down at my sneakers and this mixed look of pity and disdain passes over their faces. I don’t get it, I love them. They’re part of my look. I don’t berate them for their ugly slip-on scuffed clogs.

  347. You said it better than I did. Yep, that was the prevailing theory at my high school.

  348. Anyway, we’d all cover a few blocks, then go back to
    the command-car (I insisted it be called as such), move ahead a ways, go to a few more houses. One thing, Earl Scudder’s people had been there before us. Man, the Scuds get EVERYWHERE first. Scudder was running for regent. I’ll bet if you pried up a rock in the middle of a field – well, there’d be an Earl Scudder flier there. Land on the moon? You’d come out of the module and, yep, Scudder flier. What a team Earl has. And you never see them.

    MATT’S FUNNY. GOD HE’S FUNNY. LORDY.

    SHER: okay back trouble is bad BONGOS. the only thing that works is sleeping on your side with a pillow tween your knees, walking gently for an hour a day, no stress (ha) and VICODIN. once your back stops spasming, you can stop taking the vicodin. DONT BE A HERO, DUDE.

  349. ha! I have 10 pairs of slip-on clogs but they are rocking . . .

    I have to have mostly slip on because I don’t even LIKE to wear shoes at all . .. so I can put them on get them off fast . . . I probably have 20 pairs of shoes spread all over this house . . . I like to buy slippers that LOOK like shoes and wear them . . . tennis shoes take so much time – all that tying and whatnot!

  350. Nick and Nora Fruit Pajama Pants

    Danskin Athletic Tan Mary Janes

    Lime Green Tshirt with a spirograph design on it

  351. snazzy – Kate!!!!

    ooo la la!

  352. Lol. I don’t mind shoes .. if I had my way though, it would be sock feet all the time. Not barefoot, not shoes, sock feet. :)
    I have a pair of socks from Aeropostale, I don’t know what they’re made of, but they’re super soft and fuzzy. They have a little monkey face on the sides … every time I put them on, I make people pat my socks.. yeah. Good times.

  353. Oh lord I want those socks!!!!! my favorite pair have real jingle bells on them

  354. Jingle bells? :: gasps :: I’ve gotsta get me some a’ those.

  355. On second thought, do you have any cats? I think Lily might attack my ankles if they jingled…

  356. they are very happy, every year we get new FAMILY christmas socks

    my girls particularly like to wear TOE socks, but I don’t like that feel between my toes.

  357. we have a new kitten – she will go bonkers for the jingle bells!

  358. REGARDING FAITH? my folks met at Bob Jones University. a few years later KAZOOM: i was the Rapture’s Spawn.

    also? regarding reigion or atheism or god and theology and darwin and all that?i’m rereading the first 30 pages of IN THE BEAUTY OF THE LILIES by UPDIKE and it is so smart and funny, VERY MUCH ILKE MS KIMMEL only way different, but…OH MY GOD. DELIGHTFUL AND SO SMART AND HOPEFULLY wry. it is the funniest prose ive ever read about reigion, ever. it’s about a presbyterian pastor from 1910 who just realizes he that there IS NO GOD.
    and he like just very quietly loses his shit and grasps through his whole home library and his entire childhood and his college memory of seminary, for clues. it;s like he;s beatingtheh couch cushions looking for god and he REALLY REALLY thinks thaht no,there is NO GOD. and he;s a pastor, so it’s kind of funky.
    HAVEN YOU KNOW THIS BOOK, RIGHT? i just know you love this book, i remember you said so.

  359. I’ve never attempted toe socks, but I can say with near 100% certainty that I would hate them. Those aren’t socks, it’s an anomaly.

  360. that sounds awesome suzanne and I adore UPDIKE

    is that a 1st edition? hee hee hee

  361. i want jingle bell socks! i want jingle bell socks!

    i’m going on ebay people. I’M GOING IN…

  362. toe socks should have never made it past the drawing board – good theory, but not a good reality

  363. let’s think of the most bizarre things to talk about so that when the night sleepers wake up and log on in the morning, they will be, like WTF???

    well we already did:
    commando, cupped buttocks, accents breasts, pj’s, jingle bell socks, boners, and toe socks . . . what could be left?

  364. i should go to bed though. really. I’m supposed to sleep to get better.

  365. alright – hope Suzanne finds her jingle bell socks – they really are awesome folks . . !

    nigh nigh

  366. I don’t know what’s left … I was thinking a minute ago, “good god, what will Haven think when she turns on her computer tomorrow and finds out the conversation drifted to toe socks?” And then I thought, “hell, it was riding motorcycles naked to air dry before I even showed up”…

  367. G’night Sher! I hope your back starts feeling better. :)

  368. I’m a fan of the novelty sock of course. I have pink ones with skulls, ice cream cones, pink flamingos and my favorite, bbq’s and steaks. And I have some very cute Xmas socks as well (Look at me…I just took Christ out of Christmas!)

  369. Also Sher? That pink and black outfit gets the KATE CAKE seal of approval!

  370. My niece, who I’m on speaking terms with again just asked me if I sleep wearing a bra. I finally asked her why 98% of her questions revolve around my lady bits. She replied she didn’t know. NEITHER. DO. I. Neither do I. I really must turn her away from Hannah Montana and have her listen to Chelsea Hotel, as Haven suggested. And I think I’m going to have to go on a search for a revolver with a pearl handle … eBay, perhaps?

  371. Your niece…it’s just CUTE. She’s just trying to figure out how to be a woman. I would have been just like that. Shooot, I AM just like that. NOSEY.

  372. :: laughs :: I don’t know. I’m a mess, myself. I don’t think I’m cut out to teach someone else how to be a mature woman..

  373. SHER: of course, the updike book IN THE BEAUTY OF THE LILIES IS A signed first edition, signed

    to Suzanne Cheers! John Updike

    if you read the story POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS BY augusten burroughs, the story KILLING JOHN UPDIKE? you can find out how i got all my updike first editions signed by the great author,and then when i needed money, plotted his death with mad augusten, one long crazy night.it must be said at the time that i ws still drinking….wait a minute! shoot, i’ll post KILLING JOHN UDDIKE on my blog, now. i have my old file of it. it’s hilarious and we honestly really truly did DO IT, we wished him dead…sort of…. and we did write it together. i hope augusten wont sue me…if he gets even a little distressed, i will remove it from my blog at once…
    http://www.suzannefinnamore.com hit the red FINNABLOG bar…going there now…

    OH AND I DID FIND THE JINGLE BELL SOCKS, $3.75 ON EBAY, ADD TO CART!
    unfortunately i also tarried at ZAPPOS.COM where you can buy anything, it arrives the next day FREE SHIPPING, and if you dont like it you can ship it right back. it’s the ultimate retail apex of event destinations on the internet. i bought the NINE WEST “FLATTERY” style long black suede boots and the FRENCH CONNECTION denim skirt in rinse wash,both at ZAPPOS. so, yea. i lost my mind. again. oh ZAPPOS is a killer. i could just SEE MYSELF in this outfit, with tights and a cute sweater and well….i sinned and i partook of the ZAPPOS. and it was GOOD.

  374. Suzanne, you and Augusten are amazing. :)

  375. well, he is. i’ll give you that. i am a scribbler, but boy can i SHOP. xo sfc

  376. I wouldn’t call you a scribbler .. I’ve read a bit of your blog. :)

  377. Does anybody know why whey protein is so expensive?

  378. Sorry Jodi. I have no idea. I tried to google the answer and came up with nothing but as guess: whey is such a small component of milk that the mere extraction of it may account for the cost.

    But here’s something I found on Yahoo this morning that may make everyone feel even better about our President Elect:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081106/ap_en_ot/writers_and_obama

  379. Jodi, probably the same reason a ribeye steak costs somewhere close to $12,000.

  380. Speaking of Toni Morrison, The New Yorker review of her latest book, “Mercy,” included this remark that I find to be right on target:

    This author’s early novels were breakthroughs into the experience of black Americans as refracted in the poetic and indignant perceptions of a black woman from Lorain, Ohio; as Morrison moves deeper into a more visionary realism, a betranced pessimism saps her plots of the urgency that hope imparts to human adventures.

    I tried to read her last two novels, but gave up. The violence and bleakness overwhelmed the work for me. “Beloved” was a wonder, and I’ve read it several times. But “Paradise”? Whew, Lord.

    Does anyone else have thoughts about Morrison?

  381. Ok, a night sleeper has returned and Sher, the random topics conversation goal was totally achieved.

    Also, I would have been out of that church the moment they said no blue jeans (I practically sleep in them). I wouldn’t have stayed long enough to even know that Stephen King was the devil’s minion.

    And by the way, don’t let Lightning Bug even pretend that she tries to suppress the Broadway singing talent. She does not. She takes every opportunity to trot that one out and has used her wily ways to convince me to sing along, sans talent.

  382. Hey ya’ll I posted a Rachel Maddow video clip on my news blog last night. She’s talking about Bush’s first last ditch appointment – Lee Greenwood to a six year term on the arts council. Lee Greenwood! He could have appointed someone like Sher, the Sock Monkey, Paula Allen, or any of the fabulous artists who show up here, but he chooses Lee Greenwood, a one hit wonder.

    http://particlesofnews.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/rachel-maddow-video-lame-duck-appointment/

    p.s. Have I mentioned I LOVE RACHEL MADDOW?

  383. My friend Chris is meeting John Irving today!

  384. POS. I LOVE HER TOO!

  385. Jodi, I worship Toni Morrison although I have not read “Paradise”. Tar Baby, The Bluest Eye, Jazz and Sula are the last ones I read. But she is right up there with Alice Walker on my list. A lot of people didn’t really like “Beloved”, it was pretty dark. Oprah went into a severe depression when the movie flopped which they pulled off flawlessly, IMHO. I didn’t find the post you were referring to and I could sit here all day but I have to go to work. And Brandon, don’t despair. I know it is only a matter of time before we reinstate the civil right of same sex couples to marry. There was a lot of manipulation around that issue this time around. They took something that S.F. Mayor Gaven Newsome said out of context and made some hateful scare tactic commercial out of it. I think there were even Robocalls the night before the election. The truth is you can not stop progress. They were protests in West Hollywood and the defenders of same sex marriage have filed three lawsuits already. Imagine all the money that is waiting to be pumped into California’s economy when they finally get that one right.

  386. Every time I check in here I laugh, the topic is always the weirdest stuff. So I’ll go off topic a little and tell you all this.

    I posted something today that anyone is welcomed to read. It’s about the hatred and prejudice I faced as a poor fatherless child in the 1970s.

    http://www.thegirlfromtheghetto.wordpress.com

  387. POS – I love love love her too! :-)

    I’ve given up on trying to keep up with the excellent, hilarious, smart conversation I missed last night, but I wanted to say, SHER – yes, please do make a prayer flag for Obama. I think that is perfect and lovely, and I know it will work. Also, I go outside regularly in my pjs – to rake, sweep the walk, take out the trash, take Daisy out to do her biz, check the mail, etc, etc – Scott says I am a big hillbilly, but I think it is JUST FINE.

    I’ve got no evangelical or fundamental experiences to relate – I have a most intelligent mother that let me figure that out for myself. I’m still working on it, but I did attend a quaker service (is that the correct word?) for a dear neighbor a few years ago. It was a very simple, peaceful time where her son shared a few words about his mom, and everyone was free to share a memory or a thought about her, too, if they wanted, or they could just sit quietly. It was very moving, and even though it was sad, I loved it. I told my mom that is exactly what I wanted when I pass.

  388. Hi everyone…just posted another autumn picture over at the yahoo site.

    What a beautiful fall on so many levels.

    JODI: Confession. Toni Morrison is someone else I have had a difficult time reading. I read Beloved but I never made an emotional connection with it. I think the movie was great. Can’t account for why I never synched up with her, particularly Beloved. I have actually been more moved reading non-fictional material relating to the slave trade — things like ship manifests, sale bills, advertisements.

    I don’t particularly care for bleakness in a narrative or as a mood in what I read or necessarily how I view the world.

  389. I think the prayer flag for Obama is a great idea. Yesterday, tinged with the expressions of such hope and happiness I heard, were these other comments about his safety, his survival. My years on the police beat turned me into a fatalist, but an optimistic fatalist in that I think the worst has never happened.

    Everybody around me is a little tired today.

    Yesterday was a lot like Christmas Day at around noon, when the gifts have been opened, the miracle come and gone, an aftertaste of goodwill and love lingering in the room.

    Today is a lot like Dec. 26, when the gift wrapping must be collected; the best ribbons set aside for next year; the music discs put back in the shelf; the decorations repacked, the day now a memory next Christmas, surely coming, but a now a year off.

  390. George, your comment about yesterday being like Christmas struck a chord with me – I made the same comment about the night of the election. As I drove home that evening, there was very little traffic, few people walking around, and not many cars in parking lots. Richmond was a ghost town, a lot like it is when you drive around on Christmas day – not much going on. I think everyone was hunkered down at home, waiting for election results.

    Of course, December 26th is my birthday, so I think that is always a good day! :-) And don’t even get me started on sharing my birthday with a holiday! Haha!

  391. i was just taking some time to catch up as i was at a dr appt this am and had no time to check Hk blog until now.

    SHER: my mom has given each of her children (4) a pair of holiday socks for EVERY holiday my entire life. today i am wearing red christmas bears on my socks. i don’t even own a single pair of white socks. also, i wear shoes that are actually slippers almost everyday–and to work, too! i hate tying anything on my feet.

    KATE: i can’t believe your friend is meeting John Irving. he is my hero

  392. George! I felt exactly the same yesterday. I posted my Christmas feeling on another site and received some interesting comments asking me to explain myself.

    I knew there would be disappointment for those who voted McCain (or Bugs Bunny ;-), but I certainly didn’t expect anger.

    But now we move forward, back to grocery shopping and laundry, to see how it all plays out.

    *and I really wish I could meet John Irving*

  393. With the exceptions of work and golf, the only shoes I wear are Crocs. I love ‘em. I even have a little peace symbol charm I plugged into one of the holes.

  394. i confess that i have trouble reading toni morrison, too.

  395. George: A word of fashion advice? Don’t work the crocs with that awesome jacket. It will… um… lessen the effect of the jacket’s awesomeness.

  396. Stephsulzbach, me, too, with Tonie Morrison. I want to love her work, I know I should – I know it is deep and important, but I just struggle with it.

  397. thanks clouds, I’ll take that advice under advisement….

  398. Michelle Obama’s election night dress. Delightful or disaster?

  399. Amanda that was funny, I love funny!
    I admit I have never completely read anything by Toni Morrison or John Irving, I have however attempted both and could not get into either.

  400. George, you look very handsome in your jacket. I was at the Goodwill the last weekend when I was in Indy ( well Brownsburg) and I scored a great wooden stepstool thingy that perfectly holds a diet coke and whatever I happen to be reading at the time.
    Very cool find, but it’s no leather jacket.

  401. I don’t really know if Michelle Obama’s dress was a disaster or not, but I did happen to notice they all matched quite nicely. Barack even had on a black and red tie.

  402. Jodi,
    I love Michelle, and she is a beautiful woman, but I thought the dress was a disaster – they print was confusing – did she have a black belt on? And why red? I thought blue would have made better sense. But I agree – I did like that they all matched. They are a handsome family, to be sure.

  403. I thought that dress was killer, knock-out.

  404. i loved that the family matched, but Michelle’s dress was confusing. it was hard for me to tell what was going on with it

  405. EXACTLY, Steph – it was hard to know what the print was doing. But she’s so beautiful, it almost didn’t matter. :-)

  406. The ladies in my office — a beautiful and well-dressed lot, I might add — give a resounding thumbs-down to the dress.

    I, however, remain unpersuaded. I thought that dress had a Latin flair which reached out to Hispanics and the red reached out to red states.

  407. So much to respond to.

    Michelle’s dress: I like that it’s confusing. Also, just because red generally means GOP in poli parlance, neither they nor the Crips have a lock on it. I mean, really, who doesn’t look good in red? Color meanings range from luck, prosperity, optimism to enthusiasm, energy, a move to action. I liked the sparkly bits, too.

    Socks. I couldn’t knit to save my life last year and decidedly abruptly I could not live without alpaca socks. I became rabid about collecting sock patterns and techniques — there’s this one that has a little pointed, scalloped edge at the ankle — and the next thing I knew I’d stockpiled $500 worth of yarn and circular needles (you knit two at a time, that way you don’t end up with one knee-high and one anklet). For socks. Argh. On the other hand, winter is now very nice for me.

    Toni Morrison: I bought a collection once — Bluest Eye (about which a friend RAVED and told me I had to read first), Beloved, Sula, Song of Solomon, Tar Baby. I was bemused by Beloved (read: neutral), entranced, just entranced, by SofS, and Sula slayed me. Just dissolved me. Loved it, loved it.

  408. Steph (hey! nice name!)–Michelle is gorgeous–it doesn’t matter, you’re right–but i did find it a tad distracting :)

  409. Steph, I have thought the same about your name several times! :-)

  410. Speaking about being exhausted (someone did mention it, yes?)…I stayed home today. I just couldn’t force myself to go to work. First I had to drive my cross country running fool of son to a friends house at 5:30 am so they could run before going off on an over night sophomore class trip. For punishment I made him hug me on the sidewalk in front of his friends house with his friends mother watching. So there! Then I had to drive back home, get my daughter, and drive her downtown to school. So, by 7:00 I was exhausted. That is when I decided no work for me today. I went back home and sweet furry Foster and me went back to sleep and did not get up until 1:00. It just took me about an hour to read all these posts. So now I have to go back to sleep.

    Oh, but before I do let me just say I am loving Used World. I about about 3/4 of the way through. Brandon told me I would love it and he was so right!

  411. About Michelle’s dress: It was a modified version of one seen during Fashion Week in New York. The original is very nice. They needed to alter the design to make it a little less “flirty” and didn’t translate well. Here’s a Chicago Tribune piece on it: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-michelle-obama-dress-story,0,1949360.story

  412. Excellent sleuthing, Jim Shue! The dress without the cardigan is gorgeous. Too bad first ladies aren’t supposed to be sexy (aka breast accenting), which the cardigan was supposed to dial down:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-narciscodress20081105191045,0,7348061.photo

  413. May I join the chorus from Italy? This day is hopefully a glorious one not only for US but for the whole world. As some of you might know we are stuck here with a right wing government, including a racist party and a premier who owns half of the country’s media and has undergone a lot of trials, from which he escaped by making laws that prescribed his offences. So you can better understand why here in Italy Obama’s victory has been saluted with people in the streets and parties…

    alberto

  414. Alberto! Ciao!!! Berlusconi is indeed crazy nuts and your message makes me incredibly happy. Thank you for your input and for celebrating with us!!!

  415. Michelle Obama looks great in any outfit, she’s a beautiful woman with a real woman’s body.

  416. Alberto, so much commonality. The difference here is the administration of the last 8 years here just alters the laws before they do something unconstitutional. That way they can skip the trials altogether.

    I have such great hopes and expectations that this administration can, by example, tip the balance of how leadership for democracies worldwide should operate. And that Obama can reverse the devastating damage the Bush administration has done to America’s integrity.

  417. I hope Obama is strong enough to reverse the damage this blog has done to America’s integrity, that’s all I can say.

    p.s. I agree entirely with Amanda, George: never wear the Crocs with the leather jacket. It’s pearls before — you know the rest.

  418. …also, thank you so much for your description of the reaction in Italy. It’s been a long, desolate time in the cold, and it’s a washing-over relief not to feel so universally detested.

  419. …pearls before…squirrels?

  420. OH! swine. Slow today. Must take caffeine.

  421. I am done, done, done with The Used World. It was so beautiful Haven. Thank you.

  422. Shall we make the next post THE USED WORLD discussion?

  423. The Obama also matched nicely at the DNC.

    Yes! The Used World.

  424. I’d love to see The Used World be the next post. I finished it last night — loved it, loved it.

  425. Toni Morrison – she can do no wrong. I know lots of people struggled with Paradise – - but, me being the from the dark side and encroaching upon the light – just loved it. I think it was all about rebirthing oneself (via death) . . . and *hello* the little girl that takes her panties down so she can enjoy her ride on the bareback horse . . . lordy! Also, the writing on the basement floor – the imagery in her words . . . it’s a big, hard pill to swallow, but I found it encredibly cathartic. Reading BELOVED haunted me and I felt the movie was great . . . I don’t depend on the critics cause I think they are just looking for fluffy entertainment most of the time. The Bluest Eye . . . Sula . . actually I can’t think of one of her books that didn’t SLAY my soul.

    After various appointments today I used the cart at Goodwill to take a little stroll and I AM SO GLAD I DID – I found: Running with Scissors (probably my 5th copy), a hardback of SHE GOT UP OFF THE COUCH (3rd copy), and another copy of Owen Meany. I am assuming the people around here are well-read, but stupid for giving such great books away.

    DOUBLE score – I also found 2 vintage crazy quilts for $9.99 each – I’m talking calico and lawn – not the polyster 70′s versions – - I am in heaven!!! They are draped on my interior wicker porch swing located in the studio, looking out over the huckleberry, creek, and field . . . I no longer need therapy – I have you ALL, my swing, and nature.

    Now I am back on the couch with my cracked spine and it is very unhappy with my outing.

    I currently have my brown cableknit sweater wrap on backwards because this way I didn’t have to sit up – - it is so perfect this way I believe I will continue this fashion trend.

    Suzanne – ha, ha – yes I had read Augusten’s version of your Updike 1st edition bender (thus the “hee, hee”) . . . but I loved hearing the other side of the coin – you are each individually and collectively hilarious and would PAY to have the next meeting of you, Augusten & Haven videotaped . . . !

  426. I liked the idea of Michelle Obama’s dress – she is young and has energy, I do think it was confusing, but exciting.

  427. Go Haven – I am ready for the ladies!!!

  428. Used World…yes let’s do it!

    Sher…I was at Goodwill too, today. I bought 6 $1 bags of McDonald-esque toys just so my kids could get the 10 or so they wanted out of the bags. I now have a lovely collection of troll dolls. But yay…I got a Madame Alexander Cruella De-vil Doll! Also a wonderful vintage ceramic pink elephant, just thrown in with all the plastic crap.

  429. I think I were Michelle Obama I’d wear any damn thing I wanted.

    Wait, I do that now.

  430. but, do you or Michelle have jingle bell socks???

  431. Why don’t we all start a gang like The Pink Ladies, only instead of embroidered satin jackets we all just wear our jammies?

  432. Go Goodwill…

    jammies and Haven Taxidermy T’s with socks and slippers….

  433. I’m in for the jammie thing, KateCake. I did get dressed today, but only under duress.

  434. Haven’s Taxidermy T’s. I am so HAPPY.

  435. I am ready to discuss The Used World whenever you are Haven!
    Sher- I am so glad I am not the only one who buys books I already have just because I find them and get as excited as if they were 50 dollar bills in a pile of dirty laundry. There is some strange joy to find a familiar title in a mess of books at the goodwill ( or a garage sale) isn’t there??

  436. Amy in Ohio -

    YES – - I think, well, now I won’t feel so stingy about loaning the books out if I have extra copies I can just give them away!!!

  437. I know what you mean! I am so weird about lending out my books. I always take the dust jacket off if it’s a hardback and then I worry about it the entire time it’s gone! In July I lent my best friend ( 20 plus years of friendship here) Zippy. And mind you I had just purchased it! I had read the library copy but my Amazon order had just come in. I was feeling generous and wanted to share it. I still don’t have it back and I am so sad!!! I feel terrible asking for it. I think I will have to buy another copy.

  438. Yup,just popping in for a moment. Used World… bring it on! Now I must get back to “Split”. Made a promise to Miss Suzanne. Lord that woman is funny in the face of distress! OK. She’s funny anytime. (I know you’re lurking out there somewhere. Smooches.)

  439. Yes Haven, let’s start THE USED WORLD discussion asap … it’s been a week, most people should be near the end of the book by now!!!

  440. I hear ya, chirrens. I’ll post it tomorrow.

  441. i buy a copy in hardback, read it, and then when it comes out in paperback, i can’t stop buying them. i thought i was the only person with this ailment. i am a book pusher to al my friends. i’ve never said that out loud before. a pusher….

  442. George, RE: “day after Christmas…” THANK YOU for describing the strange feeling I’ve been having all day. You nailed it. I just want to go back to yesterday when I was HIGH on HOPE and HISTORY and BEAUTY. I guess everything that goes up must come down–but I SO miss the feeling. But at least your description puts a name on the sad queasy I feel. I don’t want to hear the skepticism about his chief of staff choice, how he caused the stock market to fall–everybody’s uneasy and I want those skeptics to remember our faith in him. I CAN’T WAIT to see what he’ll do and I might just have to stop watching the news, because I can’t bear to backlash. And don’t get me wrong, I fully expect to be disappointed with some of his decisions, but he feels like family to me now–I will always be on his side–mostly because he has pledged to ALWAYS BE ON OUR SIDE.
    I heard a quote on NPR…”He tells the best story of us.” Love it.

  443. Pusher. Hmmm. I like that. I have a hard cover of Zippy and a soft cover. Guess which one people borrow from me? (They don’t know I have the hard cover.)

  444. Oh, and BELOVED is at the top of my list of books that changed my life. And since I can’t really show anything concrete in my life that changed, I’ll say it changed “something” in me (I think it was George who first used the “rearranged me” comment? Hmmm, I may be crushing on George today). Anyway, I still think of BELOVED with awe and reverence. Didn’t like the movie although I understand Oprah’s compulsion to make it. But like so many books, it just can’t/shouldn’t be recreated on a flat screen.

  445. YESSSSSSSSS! there are other pushers. my hardbacks are precious.

  446. I am not only a book pusher . . .

    I am a book whore!

  447. I am supposed to be working on paperwork right now . . . ugh! This is much funner!

  448. I’d like to say that all I have to do is watch video footage of anyone, anywhere announcing that Obama just passed the 270 electoral votes necessary to win and I start crying again. I know I’m supposed to be over this but it never stops being miraculous.

  449. It is a miracle. It is destiny.

    I honestly don’t think I could have voted for anyone else, even if I had wanted to.

  450. I am just ignoring all the bah humbugs – I’m so happy I don’t care about what anybody else thinks!

    Haven, I am dubbing The Whole Story Videos RIGHT NOW!

  451. HI JIM SHUE LOVE YOU MOLASSES CAKE!

    michelle obama should be allowed to be sexy. yes. i think it’s imperative. someone LIED to her about that unfortunate dress, as my friend would say. they were all like WEAR THE CARDIGAN! and since she didnt really care she was like oh whatevah. come januar i expect to see her back in sleeveless shifts and pearls and ALL THAT STYLE she has.

    i have a first signed of TUW which i never touch. i cant touch my first editions, i WANT TO, BUT, i touch a book and it goes all to shit in about ten minutes. i am listening to it unabridged in my car and i FUCKING LOVE IT. i was hoarding it, but now i had to give it up for TUW. yay!!!!!

    i confess a spent three hours hunting a signed first edition of THE AUDACITY OF HOPE on ebay FOR FAR LESS THAN A KINGS RANSOM. I found it, too. i was so excited by the election that i DIDNT EVEN THINK OF BUYING OBAMA FIRST EDITION UNTIL NOV 6. NOW THAT’S A FIRST. oh im so happY! we’ll be eating KIX cereal AT MY HOUSE throughout 08. it’s worth it.

    ps i loved BELOVED the film. it was SHOCKINGLY GREAT. and Oprah was stunning in THE COLOR PURPLE and THE WOMEN OF BREWSTER PLACE. that woman astonishes me. when people criticize oprah i want to iron their TONGUES.

  452. …that last made FALL DOWN; also, it brought forth a visceral response I can only imagine men must feel when they take their dogs to be neutered. In any case, I will NEVER diss Oprah, so I am not at risk. — Congratulations on your new first edition, Suzanne — the link earlier in this thread re: American writers talking about how good his writing is made me want to jump up and go get both books. It may tempt you sorely with its siren call, but I know you will not weaken. Retirement in St. Thomas awaits. Or some alternative and personal paradise.

    Taking another quick read through The Used World — best intentions: I always want to get through them twice (Iodine thrice), but sadly, never manage by deadline. Well. There are enough smart commenters to do any called-for heavy lifting.

  453. Good morning people:

    A dozen hours of sleep with entertaining interesting dreams, fanned by a breeze sneaking in from a barely-opened window, the faint crackle of leaves breaking loose from the oak branches, low roar of jets, vibrations of trains bumping and grinding as they couple outside the power plant, a yawn, fresh coffee, work to be done, a new day.

  454. I finished Used World last night! I can’t describe all the feelings I had while reading it. It has been a long time since I book made me cry like this one did. Haven, you are amazing.

  455. The tongue wagging in DC, criticism, agressiveness, give and take, take-take-take, this crisis and that crisis, that opinion and this one, on and on and on, stocks up, stock’s down, winners and losers, buyers and sellers, high and lows…it’s all noise…it’s all flux.

  456. John Irving speaks at the Ryman tomorrow morning because he was selected to receive this years literary award from the Nashville Public Library. So, the Tennessean (our ONLY newspaper)had a big article about it this morning including a brief interview that included this:

    Does Irving have any connections to Nashville or the South?

    Nope — not even to Southern writers. “Sorry; it’s not a good fit. I’m a New Englander,” Irving said. His mother’s family arrived on the Mayflower. He admires the American and British giants of storytelling, writers like Herman Melville and Nathaniel Hawthorne, Charles Dickens and Thomas Hardy. Irving’s stepfather majored in Slavic studies at Harvard and introduced him to Russian writers like Leo Tolstoy and Anton Chekhov.

    “No disrespect intended, but I never liked Faulkner,” he said. “I thoroughly detest Hemingway. I don’t care much for Fitzgerald, either — modern American writers don’t do a lot for me.”

    Linda’s comment- I am sure that when Irving says “modern American writers” he is not talking about Haven.

  457. What a wonderful week it has been and what a wondeful blog to see so many others who feel the same way I do. Haven, I’m like you in that I keep watching the tape of Keith Olbermann announcing Obama’s victory over and over and over. And don’t get me started on his acceptance speech–I’ve watched it like 800 times in the past few days (I think I have it memorized by now) and I cry each and every time.

    The stories now surfacing about Sarah Palin are hilarious–definitely icing on the cake!

    Here’s to the future!!

  458. Here’s a link to the entire article about Irving’s visit. Mind you, the Tennessean is NOT the New York Times. http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008811070352

  459. OK, that makes me feel better, George. I just needed a reality check. :)

    Had a little incident in my class last night between students. The more I think about it, the more fascinating it becomes to me. I’m pointing out the race of the students because it helps explain what happened–not to diminish anyone’s beliefs.

    Before class had even started, the lovely older black women were overflowing with Obama joy. Then the young white boy who’s already proved his ignorance on numerous occasions, began running his mouth. I did NOT withhold MY opinion. It got heated. The boy stormed out. At first I felt badly that I hadn’t been able to control the situation, in my “authoritative” role as their instructor, by remaining netural, but then I thought–there are times when remaining silent is NOT the right thing to do, no matter what my position is.

    What do you all think?

    (By the way, the lovely ladies admitted they were surprised to hear I was liberal and for Obama. I was in turn surprised they were surprised–and a bit hurt, strangely enough. When I asked why, they said it was how I dressed that led them to believe I was conservative. Fascinating stuff! I should write about this…)

  460. Steph – guilty – I’m a book pusher, too. I’ve told the story before that I buy Haven’s books where ever, whenever I spot them, and I give them away. I insist that everyone else has to read her books, and love them, too, just like I do. It’s never a hard sell – lol! :-)

  461. AnnewithAnE:

    I think you did the right thing. You’re dead on in that remaining silent is not always the right thing to do.

    My best friend owns a book store in Elizabeth City, NC, and several of her best customers (older ladies who love the romance novels–apparently all the rage in that part of the state) came into the store several weeks ago and announced that their religion would not allow them to vote for a Muslim terrorist. My friend tried to reason with them by telling them that George Bush and the CIA would never allow a terrorist to make it all the way to Congress, but the ladies would hear none of it and kept going on and on and on about how evil Obama is. My friend’s two young sons happened to be in the store and were hearing all of this, so my friend asked these ladies to leave because she did not want her sons exposed to that kind of hatred and nonsense.

    Needless to say, the ladies have not been back, which is money out of my friend’s pocket, but she still believes (and I agree) that she did the right thing.

    And so did you. I salute you!

  462. Anne – I think you did the right thing. You would have felt bad if you had remained silent, and you are entitled to your opinion. I would bet that everyone learned a powerful lesson in the exchange – hopefully the young white boy most of all. That is what you get when you run your mouth – he needs to learn appropriateness in those situations. Sometimes the secondary lessons in the classroom are the most important ones.

  463. I’ve never been more proud to be an American…nor more inspired to be the best I can be for God and my country.

  464. Babies- there is a link on my news blog to get a free Yes We Can Sticker from Move.org you can also get more pretty cheaply. (i’m posting the link to my blog so you can see a picture of the sticker)

    http://particlesofnews.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/free-obama-yes-we-did-sticker/

  465. Hey all. Check out the cool shoes of the new King of Butan.

  466. Haven- I just saw these photos and thought of you.

    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/11/07/arts/1107-EGGL_index.html

    “William Eggleston: Democratic Camera, Photographs and Video, 1961-2008,” a retrospective at the Whitney Museum of American Art

    Here is the accompanying article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/arts/design/07eggl.html

    I know your books take place in Indiana but I love your reflections back to the sixties and seventies. I especially loved it in Used World.

  467. Thanks Lesley and StephinIN. You’re right about secondary lessons. I think those who stayed and were willing to hear the opposite side learned something. Some stayed after class and had a much more fruitful discussion which was great to see and participate in. As for the young man who removed himself from the conversation, I’d love to speak with him further and share some insights with him, but I think it’s best left alone. It may not be best to reopen things next week. We’ll see what happens…

  468. Thanks POS! i am so psyched to get a sticker!

  469. Where oh where is everyone?

  470. i just got back from lunch, a BLT treat. delicious.

  471. I’m almost always out to lunch. :)

  472. on fridays i am out to lunch pretty much all day. i work in a family business where we make lightning protection for the aerospace industry…in a nutshell, we protect planes (predominantly, but some wind turbines, props, etc as well) from lightning when it strikes–which happens quite often.

    long explanation to get here, but when i got back from lunch i learned our operations mgr was taken by ambulance to the clinic bc of chest pain and shortness of breath. we know nothing yet—

  473. The Chicago Tribune is having some fun:

    http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/headcandy/2008/11/rejected-tribun.html

  474. I’m here – nothing fun or interesting to report – but I’m present! :-)

  475. Gawd Sock. Wouldn’t that be awful if any of those were true. Well I don’t know anything about Bob Barr so I don’t know if that one would be terrible.

    I thought THAT ONE was funny, though.

  476. Goodwill: I just scored a hardcover first of Augusten’s Magical Thinking!!! Now I have a copy of everyone of of his books.

  477. HOlla
    How’s it going fellaz?
    I have a question thats been bothering me for a while.. What is acai berry?
    I keep seeing commercials on tv and banners on the internet so im finally beginnging to get curious.
    I guess its some fruit that is extremly healthy for you and your skin?
    I wouldnt mind losing a couple pounds so i kinda want to [url=http://www.livevideo.com/buyacaiberry]buy acai berry[/url] .. so if any
    of you know any good online stores that would be cool!
    I also saw it was featured on OPRAH so maybe there is some truth to this lol.

  478. Bonjour! The babes are here! This is my sexiest site to visit. I make sure I am alone in case I get too hot. Post your favorite link here.


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